freediver wrote on Sep 28^th, 2010 at 10:10pm:


Note, we probably only have about 40-60 years left, at the rates of Consumption that are likely.

In fact, we are NOW PEAKING ON PRODUCTION OF THE BETTER GRADES OF COAL, which means that this form of Energy will now start costing more, as it will take a greater volume of the lesser grade Coal, to produce an equivalent amount of Energy!

freediver wrote on Sep 28^th, 2010 at 10:10pm:


I would have thought, you would at least agree with yourself?

Yes and that has been happening for 40 years, but that is now attracting the Baby Boomer Bust, which will be followed by an actual total Population decline for at least 40-60 years, before we may finally stabilize.

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Are you talking about those who are starving?

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The sun is the source of energy which produced oil supplies over many many years. The sun produced forests.
The gravityy of the sun produces energy also.
All hail the "Sun of God". (Jesus)

So frikin' what? We already know that.

Give us some substance puhlease.
Don't go talking to me about Gods who will produce crops for us, I don't believe you. Verily.

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Who is "they" who are able to sustain themselves from a city terrace?
I don't know "them".

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Point out where he is wrong. "Substance" would be to logically point out facts.
I don't see any facts to substantiate growing energy sources in line with required economic growth. Do you?
If so, I'd like to hear of them.

Sorry mate, but your idea of economic growth by means of arts, advertising and any other non-productive leech field is just ridiculous.

Did you ever wonder why poor Americans were so fat?
Then maybe you have a clue as to why they had money to spend on so many other things that they now will not, and which will now impact other economies.

I'll be so glad to see the dumbass yankee take their medicine.

The crux of the conversation FD, is that economic growth (which, let's face it, we all rely on if we want returns) cannot keep up with demand.

We need to consume our (finite depleting) resources at an alarming rate to keep up with growth demand, let a lone stagnation demand.

Nobody can wave a magical resource wand to make it all better, it's gonna be massively hard work. For you that it is, I'm taking my cash and parting ways with this disrespectful capitalist bunny.

perceptions_now wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 12:38am:


No comment on that one FD?

freediver wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 8:24am:

That's not quite the full story, FD!

====================
You said, "Humans can't eat electricity. We can't wear it. We can't sit on it and ride around the country."

I replied with -
"Can't we? Don't we?
What do you think is involved in getting Food & Drink, onto the dinner table?

At every point of the Agricultural & Manufacturing process, there is the indirect & direct involvement of Energy, be it via machinery that runs on Energy (electricity generated from Coal, Oil & Gas) or involving compounds, such as those used in making Fertiliser.
If there is no Energy, increased Energy scarcity or simply a large increase in Energy costs, then Food & Drink will become less available to an increasing number of the Global Population!
A Vast amount of what we wear IS ACTUALLY MADE FROM SYNTHETIC MATERIALS , which are manufactured on machinery that runs on Energy (electricity generated from Coal, Oil & Gas) and often from Oil based compounds.
Many chairs that you sit on, particularly Plastic ones, are  manufactured on machinery that runs on Energy (electricity generated from Coal, Oil & Gas) and often from Oil based compounds.
What do you think runs cars, trucks, electric trains, planes etc!"

Your reply was -
freediver wrote on Sep 28^th, 2010 at 10:10pm:


My reply was -
perceptions_now wrote on Sep 29^th, 2010 at 12:09am:

===============

I'm not sure which planet you are living on, but the humans on this planet need Energy to continue any sort of complex society.

The Energy Supply needs to be varied, to accommodate the varied tasks that are required, such as power generation & a largely liquid form of Energy to run the existing transport fleet.

It should be noted that we may be able to transition away from liquids for Transport, but the transition would take 20-30 years and massive amounts of Capital, which is currently not available, due to existing Debt levels.

Your thread, this thread, is about Economic Growth & Resource Consumption.

Clearly, there are diverging factors involved there -
1)  Under the Economic Status Quo, Growth is regarded as a pre-requisite, as is shown by the Monetary system and the every utterance of almost all Politicians, Economists & Big Business.
2)  One of the leading factors involved in delivering Economic Growth is Population Growth, as it provides for an automatic, built in growth in Demand for Products & Services of every description.
3)  Energy Growth, in all of the required forms, is a pre-requisite to track Population & Demand.

Energy is what Enables Population & Demand to continue to grow, they are all in lockstep.

If Energy Growth does not track Population & Demand Growth &/or the Energy to Global GDP ratio increases significantly, thus removing large portions of Personal &/or National disposable income capacity, then the Global Economy will go into decline or collapse completely, depending on the size of the Decline in Energy Supply &/or the increase in Energy Costs!

Now, you can go off on one of your irrelevant tangents, as you usual do, but it will not change the fact that, both economic growth vs resource consumption WILL GO INTO DECLINE, if Energy is unable to track the Growth of Population & Demand growth or there is a significant Energy cost increase!

Finally, as I have said previously, it may be possible that human intellect may outweigh the other 7 deadly human conditions (sins), but I just don't think we can run good public policy, on such a wing & a prayer.