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Consan. (Read 44797 times)
freediver
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Re: Consan.
Reply #75 - Oct 10th, 2010 at 12:27pm
 
Quote:
As usual though, he's not interested in such things, and merely wishes to blur the lines between that and FGM to score a few propaganda points.


Again Abu, you substitute your fantasies for what I actually post. I have mentioned this distinction many times in this thread already. So again you agree with me but claim to be contradicting me.
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Re: Consan.
Reply #76 - Oct 10th, 2010 at 12:32pm
 
Abu, you claim I have some underhanded agenda with my questions, but you fail to see the obvious - that it is merely an attempt to clarify some important issues that you have hardly been clear on.

For example, can you explain this apparent contradiction:

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 20th, 2008 at 6:37pm:
Circumcision is not the same as mutilation.

Circumcision is when small incisions are made which do not damage the function of the sexual organs, and Islam encourages this for both male and female, but not the mutilation some people do in Arican countries, which is what we know as FGM.


abu_rashid wrote on Oct 10th, 2010 at 12:20pm:
Quote:
Can you show me a verse from the Quran or a Hadith where this is recommended?


No because there are none. Only a hadith, as I mentioned above, which says it's ok if it's not done excessively. Nowhere is it recommended.



Is this why you don't want to answer questions any more, because you inevitably contradict yourself?
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Re: Consan.
Reply #77 - Oct 10th, 2010 at 12:35pm
 
Well there is some difference of opinion on whether it is recommended or not. But Annie asked for Qur'an or Hadith where it's encouraged, and it's not in either of them.

Hence my answer.

You see contradiction, but in fact it's just a different context.
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Re: Consan.
Reply #78 - Oct 10th, 2010 at 12:38pm
 
OK thanks. See how easy it is if you just answer the question? There is no need to spend 6 pages making excuses.
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Re: Consan.
Reply #79 - Oct 10th, 2010 at 12:52pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 10th, 2010 at 12:27pm:
Again Abu, you substitute your fantasies for what I actually post. I have mentioned this distinction many times in this thread already.


FD, you're substituting your fantasies for the truth - at least when it comes to FGM.

Your Wiki states:

Quote:
Circumcision: Circumcision is required under Islam for both men and women


I've said it's not. Abu has also said it's not, though there is a Hadith that says it's permissable but certainly not required.

Will you change the Wiki to something more truthful?
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Re: Consan.
Reply #80 - Oct 10th, 2010 at 1:00pm
 
Sure Annie.

Quote:
Well there is some difference of opinion on whether it is recommended or not. But Annie asked for Qur'an or Hadith where it's encouraged, and it's not in either of them.


Abu, can you explain where it is recommended, or why Muslims disagree on whether it is recommended? This will help me to make my wiki a more accurate reflection of Islam.
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Re: Consan.
Reply #81 - Oct 10th, 2010 at 1:21pm
 
Circumcision is obligatory (O: for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women, removing the prepuce (Ar. Bazr) of the clitoris (n: not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert). (A: Hanbalis hold that circumcision of women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanafis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband.)"
 
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Re: Consan.
Reply #82 - Oct 10th, 2010 at 1:38pm
 
Quote:
Abu, can you explain where it is recommended


Nope, I've just heard it from word of mouth that some legal scholars have stated in the past it's recommended.

In the absence of actual textual evidence, and with opposition to it from most Muslim communities, then as Annie said, it's moot.

I just find it weird fd that you (along with all other anti-Islamic goons) carry on about Islam and FGM, yet rarely mention the fact many Christians also practice it too. It seems you've completely neglected the fact your own religious background is steeped in this practice.

No propaganda value in that though is there?
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Re: Consan.
Reply #83 - Oct 10th, 2010 at 2:36pm
 
I have updated the wiki. I have also added a section on rape and death by stoning. If you see any errors please let me know.

Quote:
I just find it weird fd that you (along with all other anti-Islamic goons) carry on about Islam and FGM, yet rarely mention the fact many Christians also practice it too.


If Australian Christians joined this forum and started preaching the resumption of FGM, I would criticise them just as much.
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Re: Consan.
Reply #84 - Oct 10th, 2010 at 2:47pm
 
If Australian Christians joined this forum and started preaching the resumption of FGM, I would criticise them just as much.

- FD

Ok .. but I now have to ask the question .. why would ANY Christian (Australian or otherwise) preach in favour of FGM???

The Holy Bible recurringly forbids these types of practices.


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Re: Consan.
Reply #85 - Oct 10th, 2010 at 4:12pm
 
fd,

Quote:
If Australian Christians joined this forum and started preaching the resumption of FGM, I would criticise them just as much.


And where did Muslims preach in favour of it?

Lisa,

Quote:
Ok .. but I now have to ask the question .. why would ANY Christian (Australian or otherwise) preach in favour of FGM???


Because it's a practice carried out by Christians.

Quote:
Even though FGC is practiced in mostly Islamic countries, it is not an Islamic practice. FGC is a cross-cultural and cross-religious ritual. In Africa and the Middle East it is performed by Muslims, Coptic Christians, members of various indigenous groups, Protestants, and Catholics, to name a few.

Source: Female Genital Cutting Education Network

Quote:
The Holy Bible recurringly forbids these types of practices.


I very much doubt you know much about what's in the "Holy Bible". Do you know for instance that according to the "Holy Bible", if a girl is raped outside the city limits, the rapist is liable to marry her, pay her father a coupla shekels and can never divorce her? Or that parents can sell their kids into slavery? But only for 6 year terms mind you.

I think it's best you read your "Holy Bible" thoroughly before commenting about what is and isn't in it.

Especially considering that it does permit mutilation of the body, especially if part of your body "caused you to sin", like this poor misguided simpleton from the Phillipines.



Filipino Cuts Off Penis in Fit of Religious Fervor


BACOLOD, Philippines (Reuters) - A 32-year-old Filipino farmer who believed his penis was driving him to sin sliced it off with a machete in a fit of religious fervor, family members and doctors said on Friday.

Relatives said they found the former security guard lying on the floor, covered in blood and with a portion of his penis missing when they went to his hut on Negros island in the southern Philippines on Monday.

``He is a good son, and one of seven children, He indulged himself by reading the Bible,'' his mother told reporters in Bacolod City 306 miles south of Manila, where the man is now in hospital.

``His act was probably triggered by the book of Matthew 18:8,'' she said.

The verse, from the New Testament, reads ``If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.''

Family members said they rushed the man to a nearby hospital in Bacolod where doctors said they had stitched up and reconstructed his penis, although it is now 20 percent shorter.

Relatives said they were unable to find the severed portion.

Doctors said the man's penis showed several wounds, indicating that the man had hacked at it several times before it detached.

``The mere act of cutting his penis signifies that he is psychotic,'' the doctor said, but did not indicate whether the man would undergo psychiatric evaluation.

He is now in stable condition and his wounds were expected to heal in two and a half weeks, doctors said. The man will still be able to have children, the doctor added.

The man's mother said her son had been depressed and obsessed with the Bible since his wife moved to Manila to work as a housemaid, leaving their young child to live with her family.

``He said he wanted to be nailed to a coconut tree,'' the man's mother said. ``He had memorized the Bible and preaches with the pastors in our place.

``He also advised other people to remove nude photos from their walls so that small children will not become sex maniacs later,'' the mother said.

Today newspaper quoted the man as saying he had no regrets about cutting off his penis because it was driving him to sin.

Local radio and newspaper reports said the man had visualized his penis as a ``cobra'' drawing him toward women.
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Re: Consan.
Reply #86 - Oct 10th, 2010 at 4:37pm
 
I very much doubt you know much about what's in the "Holy Bible".

Do you know for instance that according to the "Holy Bible", if a girl is raped outside the city limits, the rapist is liable to marry her, pay her father a coupla shekels and can never divorce her? Or that parents can sell their kids into slavery? But only for 6 year terms mind you.

- Abu

I very much doubt that you know anything about me quite frankly.

I've read the Holy Bible back to back over 12 times and I also taught the Bible for 15 yrs.

Oh and I know the OLD TESTAMENT laws (which you've partially quoted above) VERY well also.

Now Abu .. I've said this a few times to you .. do you think you could stop embarrassing yourself with the rubbish you insist on posting?

It would make a nice change ..

Kind regards

Lisa
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Re: Consan.
Reply #87 - Oct 11th, 2010 at 7:53pm
 
Quote:
And where did Muslims preach in favour of it?


For starters, there was Malik right here on this forum.

A more real world example is the Ulema Council, Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI), who say female circumcision is necessary for Muslims.
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Re: Consan.
Reply #88 - Oct 11th, 2010 at 9:00pm
 
Please quote what Malik said.
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Re: Consan.
Reply #89 - Oct 11th, 2010 at 10:09pm
 
Here is an example:

Malik Shakur wrote on Jul 20th, 2008 at 9:32pm:
What is considered 'female circumcision' in the Islamic world at least is the removal or reduction of the clitoral hood to promote cleanliness, it is not harming any of the woman's genitals at all and doesn't take away a woman's ability to have sexual satisfaction. It promotes cleanliness just as male circumcision does and in fact can increase a woman's pleasure during sexual intercourse.

....


Unlike Christianity, Islam encourages sex with ones wife/husband and even to the extent of it being something that one receives blessings from God for.
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