Australian Politics Forum - the speed of sound, light and wireless.

Sir lastnail

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Re: the speed of sound, light and wireless.
Reply #15 - Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 10:19am

aussiefree2ride wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 9:24am:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 1^st, 2010 at 11:16pm:

Ive been flabbergasted by the technical idiocy of so many posters who apparently were asleep in science class as well as many other classes.

Ive read posters talking about the superiority of fibre optic because it 'operates at the speed of light' whereas the copper does not and the first prize definately goes to equitist who believes wireless operates at the speed of sound.

the copper network operates at approximately 96-99% of the speed of light. fibre operates at around the same speed. wireless - being electromagnetic waves JUST LIKE LIGHT also operates at - you guessed it - the speed of light.

what truly staggers me is how any of you dimwits could possibly think differently. did it not occur to you that when you speak on the phone (either wireless or copper) to someone overseas why there is no delay? did that not twig you 'minds' that voice travelling virtually instantaneously over 15,000km or more might be travelling a bit faster than the speed of sound? or when NASA spoke to apollo 11 the wireless signal didnt take 2 weeks to get there?

some of you are strange, strange people.

Off topic, but there isn`t a high "scientific knowledge" content in the decision making process of the disciples of the AGW religion either. Lemmings.

And I suppose you think that Andrew Bolt doing a google search for a contrary argument and writing it up in the Herald Sun is really scientific ? Or some dumb ar.se libbo thinking that a membership to the liberal party is a substitute for many years of scientific training at a respected University ?

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Bobby.

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Re: the speed of sound, light and wireless.
Reply #16 - Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 10:27am

Hi Nail,
Just did some interesting calculations.
There are 3 main infrared wavelengths available:
850 nm, 1300nm, & 1550nm.
Lets take the slowest one - the last.
frequency = velocity/wavelength

3 x 10

8

/ 1550 x10

-9

= 194,000 GHz = possible future bandwidth.

This compares to microwave frequencies of 1 to 20 GHz.
Radio has a pathetic potential bandwidth compared to fiber -
& every fiber has that potential bandwidth
( which may be realised one day soon.)

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Life_goes_on

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Re: the speed of sound, light and wireless.
Reply #17 - Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 10:47am

Quote:

alo keep in mind that if any communication - eg phone - is using satellite that these geo-synchronous satellites are 36,000 kms up.

Unless your connection to your ISP is via satellite, it is extremely unlikely that any portion of the journey that the packets of information take to and from your PC and a remote internet site are via satellite. The same goes for telephony - either fixed line or mobile (obviously this excludes satellite phones).

99.99%+ of internet and telephony data travel around the world via cables. The exceptions being a few remote islands scattered around the place and satellite phones.

The reason for the delay with VOIP is down to a combination of reasons - propagation (delays due to physical comms type - copper, fibre etc) , hardware (packet sizes and devices that route the data along the way) and queuing (line load) as the packets make their way from node to node.

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« Last Edit: Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 11:19am by Life_goes_on »

"You're just one lucky motherf-cker" - Someone, 5th February 2013

Num num num num.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 103136 Melbourne Gender:	Re: the speed of sound, light and wireless. Reply #18 - Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 11:04am Life, Quote: 99.99%+ of internet and telephony data travel around the world via cables Do you have a link for that?
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freediver

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Re: the speed of sound, light and wireless.
Reply #19 - Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 11:08am

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 1^st, 2010 at 11:16pm:

Ive been flabbergasted by the technical idiocy of so many posters who apparently were asleep in science class as well as many other classes.

Ive read posters talking about the superiority of fibre optic because it 'operates at the speed of light' whereas the copper does not and the first prize definately goes to equitist who believes wireless operates at the speed of sound.

the copper network operates at approximately 96-99% of the speed of light. fibre operates at around the same speed. wireless - being electromagnetic waves JUST LIKE LIGHT also operates at - you guessed it - the speed of light.

what truly staggers me is how any of you dimwits could possibly think differently. did it not occur to you that when you speak on the phone (either wireless or copper) to someone overseas why there is no delay? did that not twig you 'minds' that voice travelling virtually instantaneously over 15,000km or more might be travelling a bit faster than the speed of sound? or when NASA spoke to apollo 11 the wireless signal didnt take 2 weeks to get there?

some of you are strange, strange people.

I can make a copper wire based phone that transmits noise at the speed of sound.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Life_goes_on

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Re: the speed of sound, light and wireless.
Reply #20 - Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 11:31am

Quote:

Do you have a link for that?

No. That comes from having worked in the industry.
But I'm sure a bit of googling can find something about the volume of land based comms vs satellite comms.

Since fibre has replaced the vast majority of international submarine copper cables, the requirement for satellite comms for things such as international telephony and internet has pretty much been made obsolete.

(a quick google found this.... from wiki....)

Quote:

Improvements in submarine communications cables, through the use of fiber-optics, caused some decline in the use of satellites for fixed telephony in the late 20th century, but they still serve remote islands such as Ascension Island, Saint Helena, Diego Garcia, and Easter Island, where no submarine cables are in service. There are also regions of some continents and countries where landline telecommunications are rare to nonexistent, for example large regions of South America, Africa, Canada, China, Russia, and Australia. Satellite communications also provide connection to the edges of Antarctica and Greenland.

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« Last Edit: Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 11:38am by Life_goes_on »

"You're just one lucky motherf-cker" - Someone, 5th February 2013

Num num num num.

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longweekend58

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Re: the speed of sound, light and wireless.
Reply #21 - Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 12:11pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 10:07am:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 7:21am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 1:37am:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 1^st, 2010 at 11:16pm:

Ive been flabbergasted by the technical idiocy of so many posters who apparently were asleep in science class as well as many other classes.

Ive read posters talking about the superiority of fibre optic because it 'operates at the speed of light' whereas the copper does not and the first prize definately goes to equitist who believes wireless operates at the speed of sound.

the copper network operates at approximately 96-99% of the speed of light. fibre operates at around the same speed. wireless - being electromagnetic waves JUST LIKE LIGHT also operates at - you guessed it - the speed of light.

what truly staggers me is how any of you dimwits could possibly think differently. did it not occur to you that when you speak on the phone (either wireless or copper) to someone overseas why there is no delay? did that not twig you 'minds' that voice travelling virtually instantaneously over 15,000km or more might be travelling a bit faster than the speed of sound? or when NASA spoke to apollo 11 the wireless signal didnt take 2 weeks to get there?

some of you are strange, strange people.

While you are doing a great job of explaining things would you like to go on and give us the real advantage of optic over wireless.

.

bandwidth - pure and simple.

what about latency which is the real killer in wireless Sad

bet you didn't know about that did you Wink

i know about latency. but do you know what speed wireless transmits at?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: the speed of sound, light and wireless.
Reply #22 - Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 12:13pm

freediver wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 11:08am:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 1^st, 2010 at 11:16pm:

Ive been flabbergasted by the technical idiocy of so many posters who apparently were asleep in science class as well as many other classes.

Ive read posters talking about the superiority of fibre optic because it 'operates at the speed of light' whereas the copper does not and the first prize definately goes to equitist who believes wireless operates at the speed of sound.

the copper network operates at approximately 96-99% of the speed of light. fibre operates at around the same speed. wireless - being electromagnetic waves JUST LIKE LIGHT also operates at - you guessed it - the speed of light.

what truly staggers me is how any of you dimwits could possibly think differently. did it not occur to you that when you speak on the phone (either wireless or copper) to someone overseas why there is no delay? did that not twig you 'minds' that voice travelling virtually instantaneously over 15,000km or more might be travelling a bit faster than the speed of sound? or when NASA spoke to apollo 11 the wireless signal didnt take 2 weeks to get there?

some of you are strange, strange people.

I can make a copper wire based phone that transmits noise at the speed of sound.

so are you one of the simpletons that wants to maintain that copper transmits signals at less than the speed of light (well 0.96c)?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: the speed of sound, light and wireless.
Reply #23 - Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 12:18pm

So to sum up...

we have a whole host of laborites and NBN supporters who beleived fibre's superiority is because its signals travel at the speed of light whereas they beleive that copper and wireless travle a lot slower (eg the speed of sound).

that pretty much invalidates every single thing you have said about the NBN since clearly you dont have even an ultra basic understanding of modern telecommunications - not even a junior high level.

if you people ever DO get the NBN to your door you are going to be so disappointed when you fire it up and go to your favourite website and find it is no different...

I know I have called laborites IDIOTS before. It is a great delight to finally discover that that is fact LITERALLY true.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30067 Gender:	Re: the speed of sound, light and wireless. Reply #24 - Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 12:20pm longweekend58 wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 12:11pm: i know about latency. but do you know what speed wireless transmits at? It depends on the velocity constant of the medium it travels through Air is slightly different to a vacuum and the VC of cables differs as well.
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longweekend58

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Re: the speed of sound, light and wireless.
Reply #25 - Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 12:21pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 10:27am:

Hi Nail,
Just did some interesting calculations.
There are 3 main infrared wavelengths available:
850 nm, 1300nm, & 1550nm.
Lets take the slowest one - the last.
frequency = velocity/wavelength

3 x 10

8

/ 1550 x10

-9

= 194,000 GHz = possible future bandwidth.

This compares to microwave frequencies of 1 to 20 GHz.
Radio has a pathetic potential bandwidth compared to fiber -
& every fiber has that potential bandwidth
( which may be realised one day soon.)

You demonstrate how little you know about telecommunications. radio/wireless is NOT limited to 20Ghz and can in fact go into the terahertz range. Or did google not tell you that?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Sir lastnail

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Re: the speed of sound, light and wireless.
Reply #26 - Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 12:24pm

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 12:18pm:

So to sum up...

we have a whole host of laborites and NBN supporters who beleived fibre's superiority is because its signals travel at the speed of light whereas they beleive that copper and wireless travle a lot slower (eg the speed of sound).

that pretty much invalidates every single thing you have said about the NBN since clearly you dont have even an ultra basic understanding of modern telecommunications - not even a junior high level.

if you people ever DO get the NBN to your door you are going to be so disappointed when you fire it up and go to your favourite website and find it is no different...

I know I have called laborites IDIOTS before. It is a great delight to finally discover that that is fact LITERALLY true.

Don't make generalizations you nitwit. Fiber has the advantage that it is less susceptible to interference and it does not bomb out on a rainy day like satellite does !!

And you are the one who had no idea about the concept of a gross feedin tariff so I wouldn't be throwing any stones in glass houses.

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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aussiefree2ride

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Re: the speed of sound, light and wireless.
Reply #27 - Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 12:27pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 10:19am:

aussiefree2ride wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 9:24am:

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 1^st, 2010 at 11:16pm:

Ive been flabbergasted by the technical idiocy of so many posters who apparently were asleep in science class as well as many other classes.

Ive read posters talking about the superiority of fibre optic because it 'operates at the speed of light' whereas the copper does not and the first prize definately goes to equitist who believes wireless operates at the speed of sound.

the copper network operates at approximately 96-99% of the speed of light. fibre operates at around the same speed. wireless - being electromagnetic waves JUST LIKE LIGHT also operates at - you guessed it - the speed of light.

what truly staggers me is how any of you dimwits could possibly think differently. did it not occur to you that when you speak on the phone (either wireless or copper) to someone overseas why there is no delay? did that not twig you 'minds' that voice travelling virtually instantaneously over 15,000km or more might be travelling a bit faster than the speed of sound? or when NASA spoke to apollo 11 the wireless signal didnt take 2 weeks to get there?

some of you are strange, strange people.

Off topic, but there isn`t a high "scientific knowledge" content in the decision making process of the disciples of the AGW religion either. Lemmings.

And I suppose you think that Andrew Bolt doing a google search for a contrary argument and writing it up in the Herald Sun is really scientific ? Or some dumb ar.se libbo thinking that a membership to the liberal party is a substitute for many years of scientific training at a respected University ?

WTF are you talking about? Huh

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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30067 Gender:	Re: the speed of sound, light and wireless. Reply #28 - Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 12:28pm [quote author=aussiefree2ride link=1285938975/15#27 date=1285986421] well what the hell is "AGW religion" ?? That's the terminology that Andrew Bolt uses in the Herald Sun.
Back to top	In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”. IP Logged

Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30067 Gender:	Re: the speed of sound, light and wireless. Reply #29 - Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 12:29pm aussiefree2ride wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2010 at 12:27pm: WTF are you talking about? well what the hell is "AGW religion" ?? That's the terminology that Andrew Bolt uses in the Herald Sun.
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