Australian Politics Forum - The Sense Of The Beautiful

Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: The Sense Of The Beautiful Reply #15 - Oct 13^th, 2010 at 11:48am We're descending into the worship of idiocy. - Helian Only if we choose to Helian. There is no obligation to take up the offer.
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: The Sense Of The Beautiful Reply #16 - Oct 13^th, 2010 at 1:32pm Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 13^th, 2010 at 11:48am: We're descending into the worship of idiocy. - Helian Only if we choose to Helian. There is no obligation to take up the offer. True to a point.... The beautiful is subverted to seduce the masses into believing that outright lies are examples of "relative" truth.
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Lisa Jones

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Re: The Sense Of The Beautiful
Reply #17 - Oct 13^th, 2010 at 2:24pm

The beautiful is subverted to seduce the masses into believing that outright lies are examples of "relative" truth.

- Helian

Unfortunately, everything in this life is vulnerable to subversion and abuse.

That is why the Holy Bible states and I quote:

Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.

- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

Do not forsake Wisdom, and she will protect you;
love her, and she will watch over you.

- Proverbs 4:6

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: The Sense Of The Beautiful
Reply #18 - Oct 13^th, 2010 at 3:20pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 13^th, 2010 at 2:24pm:

The beautiful is subverted to seduce the masses into believing that outright lies are examples of "relative" truth.

- Helian

Unfortunately, everything in this life is vulnerable to subversion and abuse.

That is why the Holy Bible states and I quote:

And you mean that absolutely. Wink

Hence the flaw in relativism.

BTW Christianity and Biblical text are founded on the belief in absolute truth.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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stryder Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4545 Gender:	Re: The Sense Of The Beautiful Reply #19 - Oct 17^th, 2010 at 9:22pm
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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: The Sense Of The Beautiful Reply #20 - Oct 22^nd, 2010 at 12:32am We picture love as heart-shaped because we do not know the shape of the soul. ~Robert Brault
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Lisa Jones

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Re: The Sense Of The Beautiful
Reply #21 - Oct 29^th, 2010 at 10:15pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 13^th, 2010 at 3:20pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 13^th, 2010 at 2:24pm:

The beautiful is subverted to seduce the masses into believing that outright lies are examples of "relative" truth.

- Helian

Unfortunately, everything in this life is vulnerable to subversion and abuse.

That is why the Holy Bible states and I quote:

And you mean that absolutely. Wink

Hence the flaw in relativism.

BTW Christianity and Biblical text are founded on the belief in absolute truth.

Actually Helian, I stated this:

Unfortunately, everything in this life is vulnerable to subversion and abuse.

That is why the Holy Bible states and I quote:

Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.

- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

Do not forsake Wisdom, and she will protect you;
love her, and she will watch over you.

- Proverbs 4:6

Helian .. the Bible offers wisdom and advice to those who choose to take it. No one is under compulsion/obligation to accept the offer.

The points you are raising are beyond the parameters of this topic.

Perhaps you ought to initiate a topic on relativism vs absolutism? It's only a suggestion of course

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: The Sense Of The Beautiful Reply #22 - Oct 29^th, 2010 at 10:21pm Sense of the beautiful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCuzDVmH7lw
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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: The Sense Of The Beautiful Reply #23 - Oct 29^th, 2010 at 10:31pm That was ABSOLUTELY lol breathtaking Muso! I'm listening to it again!
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Lisa Jones

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Re: The Sense Of The Beautiful
Reply #24 - Oct 30^th, 2010 at 7:39pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1PakYR1stU&feature=related

"Stand Inside Your Love"

You and me
Meant to be
Immutable
Impossible
It's destiny
Pure lunacy
Incalculable
Insufferable
But for the last time
You're everything that I want and ask for
You're all that I'd dreamed
Who wouldn't be the one you love
Who wouldn't stand inside your love
Protected and the lover of
A pure soul and beautiful you
Don't understand
Don't feel me now
I will breathe
For the both of us
Travel the world
Traverse the skies
Your home is here
Within my heart
And for the first time
I feel as though I am reborn
In my mind
Recast as child and mystic sage
Who wouldn't be the one you love
Who wouldn't stand inside your love
And for the first time
I'm telling you how much I need and bleed for
Your every move and waking sound
In my time
I'll wrap my wire around your heart and your mind
You're mine forever now
Who wouldn't be the one you love and live for
Who wouldn't stand inside your love and die for
Who wouldn't be the one you love

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Lisa Jones

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Re: The Sense Of The Beautiful
Reply #25 - Nov 5^th, 2010 at 1:37pm

Saw this posted in the Death topic ..

On Children - Kahlil Gibran

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: The Sense Of The Beautiful Reply #26 - Nov 5^th, 2010 at 2:02pm Yes, and it's very true.
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Amadd

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Re: The Sense Of The Beautiful
Reply #27 - Nov 8^th, 2010 at 7:25am

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 5^th, 2010 at 1:37pm:

Saw this posted in the Death topic ..

On Children - Kahlil Gibran

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

I've seen that one before and I agreed with it wholeheartedly.
It makes even more sense to me now. Thanks for posting that one.

I like the errant shot, it's always a thing of beauty

There's no nicer feeling than feeling like a sling shot.

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« Last Edit: Nov 8^th, 2010 at 10:34am by Amadd »

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: The Sense Of The Beautiful
Reply #28 - Nov 8^th, 2010 at 10:51am

Schopenhauer's belief of the beautiful, not 'sense', as that insinuates the use of the senses, hence phenomenal interaction, is when when we enter pure contemplation devoid of all willing; it is to become a timeless, will-less subject that mirrors the Platonic object/Ideas. Hence, the subject becomes the object; it sees things as they are in-themselves.

This sounds nice, but it makes the logical fallacy that you can rip yourself outside of time, space, and causality, that is, to severe the chain of cause and effect. It is also predicated on the belief that Platonic Ideas do actually exist.
Schopenhauer, like all mystics in this domain, come to their conclusions through experience, not intuition. That is, he had to read about it and then experience it. The intuition part is only added after the methodology runs its course.
It also presumes that this mindset (timeless, will-less subject) is actually seeing things as they are in-themselves. How does he know this? Because Plato and Kant told him so? Could he not be experiencing something else?
Another blow for the fans of the mind/body split.
What's so good about wanting to depart from the chain of cause and effect anyway? Does life suck so much that you want to escape it? Could this Buddhist style meditation really just be for the weary, those who dislike the world?

Could not the world with all its anger, frustration, alienation, along with love and compassion be beautiful?
Can you affirm the eternal recurrence of all things?

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Amadd Gold Member Offline Mo Posts: 6217	Re: The Sense Of The Beautiful Reply #29 - Nov 8^th, 2010 at 11:30am If you can give away all of the mumbo jumbo, then how 'bout accepting that the parent should just release their offspring to be what they may be? It's a very selfish exploit for a parent to have lived their freedom and then to expect their children to give up theirs so that they have a shoulder to lean on.
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