Gawd .. this topic's like The Young and the Restless .. you can check back once a week and still not miss anything lmao )

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See Abu's post immediately prior to yours. The story is that a woman complained via Muhammed's wife that her husband had beaten her until her skin was greener than the dress she wore. Muhammed did not take any action against the husband. Abu 'justifies' this by saying the wife had slandered her husband and Muhammed investigated and found this out.

In earlier posts Abu also explained that bruising your wife or child in the act of disciplining them is OK. In my opinion, the really interesting bit here is not the physical abuse he condones, but the power relationship between husband and wife that he promotes.

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My understanding is that he is not married and looks down upon wife beaters (while defining what is normally considered abuse out of existence), on the basis that you should be able to control your wife without going that far. However, he would have it effectively legalised under shariah law, and one can only speculate how he would respond peronsally in the heat of the moment, given that he views the role of the husband to discipline the wife.

That is why he cannot answer such simple questions.

I have heard it suggested by Muslims that the wife should be able to beat her husband in return if it is found that the husband has beaten her without cause. That way everyone is happy.   Though I'm not sure if these 'wives who didn't deserve it' ever existed in practice.

Sorry didn't notice these questions, which I assumed are for me?

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There's a few.

1) The idea that Islamic law is still implemented, it is not. It ceased being implemented on March 3rd. 1924 (with the final abolition of the Ottoman Caliphate) and has not been re-implemented since. Those governments often paraded around as Islamic by the West are merely colonialist puppets, who misuse Islam to obscure their status as agents of the Western powers in front of their people.

2) The idea that Islamic law is somehow a threat to a Western secular society. Muslims have struggled to even have it re-implemented in their own lands (as is witnessed by the point above, that it's almost a century now since it was last implemented). The hysteria about Muslims forcing shari'ah law into the West is just absolute mindless garbage. Merely being able to settle family matters by tribunals, or having 'halal banks' is not shari'ah law, and only a real simpleton could ever think it was.

3) The idea that Islam is 'incompatible' with the West, and therefore Muslims cannot live in the West. Islam consists of a 3-tier structure when it comes to how it is laid out. It defines 3 relationships for the human being, and offers guidance/regulation in all 3. The first is between an individual and his creator. This relationship has no bearing on where a person lives really, since it's merely related to personal acts of worship and the like. The second relationship is between a person and themself. The way they conduct themselves, what they wear, eat, drink etc. Again doesn't really have any major impact on the society around them. The third is the relationship between a person and others, ie. societal transactions. Obviously this area does effect the way in which a person fits into a society and their relationship with the state. Religion as it's understood in the West pretty much only consists of the first two aspects, touching slightly into the third (be good to your neighbour etc). If a state were to impinge upon the rights of an individual Muslim to practice the first two aspects, then they would be required to disobey the state, but in the case of the third category, then a Muslim must abide by the laws of the state in which they reside. So in reality there is no conflict.

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There are 4 mainstream schools of Islamic jurisprudence and they differ very little (on the main issues). Personally I follow that of Imam ash-Shafi', but consider all 4 valid, and would have no problem living under any of them.

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As above, there are no active examples.

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That's a pretty vague question. what exactly is meant by progressive? Will I change the laws and rules of Islam to appease others? Do I see that conditions in the world have changed and that things must adapt? Do I drive a car instead of a camel? This question needs to be defined a lot better.

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Since I don't believe Islamic law is currently in practice, no.

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No. Islam is pure and perfect, and separating oneself from it would be misguidance.

Wife beating is against the law in civilised societies we throw people in Jail for bashing women.

Quran 4:34 allows wife beating if you fear disobedience.

Click on the link to read more about Quran 4:34

www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Wife_Beating_in_Islam

Abu-
Do you think women will consider reverting to Islam after reading Quran 4:34?

If they read the fine print on the exit policy with Islam (apostasy) do you think they will be happy?

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 21^st, 2011 at 3:20pm:


It appears Lauren Booth did not know Mohammad had a 6 yo wife listen to her response.

Wait till she finds out how old Aisha was when the marriage was consummated.

It does not sound like they told her about Quran 4.34.

Is it the muslim way to avoid answering questions and divert the topic?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjnetrFzVIQ

shockresist wrote on Jul 20^th, 2013 at 2:22pm:


Here you go shocky, and entire thread devoted to Islamic wife beating.

freediver wrote on Oct 17^th, 2010 at 6:49pm:


polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 20^th, 2013 at 2:13pm:


Gandalf, can you explain how excusing a man beating his wife until her skin turned green fits in with you spiel about "Discouraging the mistreatment of women was something of a theme for the prophet"? Are you saying the Muhammed protected women the same way he protected Jews, ie they deserved their mistreatment? Perhaps it was fair punishment for the incident with the apple?

True Colours wrote on Jul 20^th, 2013 at 3:20pm:


... but then....   

Now I understand why the ululate at the drop of a stick (not thicker than yer thumb, of course)!!!