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« Last Modified by: Equitist on: Dec 1st, 2010 at 9:15am »

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ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power (Read 20575 times)
Soren
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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #105 - Dec 1st, 2010 at 12:55pm
 
List of civilian nuclear accidents:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_civilian_nuclear_accidents


List of aviation accidents:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_commercia...


You should pray for a nuclear power plant in your backyard and don't even think about going near an airport.

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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #106 - Dec 1st, 2010 at 12:57pm
 
Since this silly analogy keeps running, can you tell me

When do they stop counting the people injured in a nuclear accident?

When a plane crashes, is it normal practice to evacuate hundreds of square miles and prohibit entry for decades?
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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #107 - Dec 1st, 2010 at 1:38pm
 
The questions need to be asked
1 how much will one cost? then times it by how ever many we need.
2 Why have one in this country? we have more sunshine than most countries in the word. We can build an industry of solar power and supply the world. We are surrounded by sea, so wave power could be a much cheaper option.
3 We have sh it loads of natural gas, already there., not to mention Geo thermal, all at a much lower cost than nuke.
The list goes on, why pour sh it loads of money into something that even if we began building it today would be 10 plus years and BILLIONS of dollars away( is the correct muso?)
4 Nukes may be good for countries without natural energy sources ,like Aus, but even then, countries like Germany, hardly a tropical paradise,are embracing solar energy, why wouldn't we?
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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #108 - Dec 1st, 2010 at 2:58pm
 
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/energy-smart/nuclear-power-failing-price-test-20101130-18fjb.html

Dr Diesendorf, the deputy director of the Institute of Environmental Studies, said the cost of building a nuclear power plant has risen rapidly since 2002, from more than $US2000 per kw of generation capacity installed, to about $US7400 per kw.

The latest capital cost translates to about US15˘ per kwh of electricity generated, which is projected to rise to about 20˘ per kwh over the next decade, if costs continue to rise at current rates.

The figures do not count subsidies for nuclear energy such as loan guarantees, land acquired for buffer zones around reactors or decommissioning costs.

By comparison the study cites big falls in the capital cost of onshore wind power last year, from $1900 per kw to $1700 per kw, and in solar from $7000 per kw to $5120 per kw (and as low as $3000 for utility-scale projects).

None of the projections assume a carbon price.

Dr Diesendorf said the cost of nuclear energy was rising because the industry was "not expanding".

Nuclear's share of global power generation had fallen from 17 per cent in 2001 to 14 per cent last year with the main growth coming from China, Russia, India and South Korea.

Only two reactors were under construction in western countries – in Finland and France – and both were over-time and over-budget.
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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #109 - Dec 1st, 2010 at 3:04pm
 
Equitist wrote on Dec 1st, 2010 at 11:07am:
nichy wrote on Dec 1st, 2010 at 11:04am:
Australia seems to be lagging behind the rest of the world.


The United States has by far the most nuclear power plants, with more than one hundred currently in operation. All told, nuclear power in the United States accounts for just over 20% of the country’s energy needs. A large push is being made by some factions to ramp up the number of nuclear power plants in the country, hoping to add another thirty plants in the coming years, to wean the nation off of a dependence on foreign oil.

Both France and Japan have more than fifty nuclear power plants each in their countries, France with fifty-nine and Japan with fifty-five. France is one of only a handful of nations to produce the majority of its energy using nuclear power, and meets some 77% of its needs that way, the largest percentage of any nation in the world. Japan covers roughly 30% of its energy needs through nuclear power.

Russia has thirty-one nuclear power plants in its country, producing just over 15% of its total energy needs. After a period of relative stagnation in nuclear power development, following the catastrophic meltdown at Chernobyl, Russia has undertaken plans to grow its nuclear power generation immensely. Sixteen new plants are either currently being built or have been ordered, while another nineteen have been proposed, making it one of the most ambitious growth projects currently underway.

Only a handful of other nations have more than fifteen nuclear power plants, many of them countries which built their plants years ago. Germany produces roughly a quarter of their energy through their seventeen nuclear power plants, but they are currently decommissioning them and moving to other energy production methods. The Ukraine has fifteen power plants, responsible for roughly half of their energy needs, and are planning on adding another thirteen plants by the year 2030. Canada, India, the United Kingdom, and South Korea also each have more than fifteen power plants, with both India and South Korea planning on growing that number substantially in the future.

Only four countries aside from France generate more than half of their energy through nuclear power. Sweden’s ten plants account for just over 50% of their energy, Belgium’s seven make up 54% of their energy, although they are considering decommissioning them, Slovakia’s six plants generate just over 50% of their energy, and Lithuania’s single nuclear power plant meets 64% of their energy needs.

A number of countries have undertaken ambitious programs to grow their nuclear power generation enormously in the coming years. Both Brazil and China are at the forefront of this movement. With only two current nuclear power plants, Brazil generates very little of their energy through nuclear power, but they have plans to build another fifty plants soon. China has the most ambitious growth program, aiming to add another hundred nuclear power plants to their existing ten, which would cover roughly a fifth of their energy needs, and make them the top producer of nuclear power in the world.


http://www.wisegeek.com/which-countries-have-nuclear-power.htm




Hmmnnn....why is Germany decommissioning their nuke plants?


Because they were built 30 or 40 years ago???
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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #110 - Dec 1st, 2010 at 3:08pm
 
Please delete wrote on Dec 1st, 2010 at 9:29am:
"Anyone who believes in AGW would at least consider nuke. It not they`re hypocrites. "

I just puzzle over this "let's have a debate" garbage, as if someone is denying someone else their chance to speak.

I still haven't heard one corporation propose a plant - not one - it's all just talk by non players.

Personally, I worry about the opportunity cost of spending $300B or so on Nuclear.



It's mostly that the Labor Government has refused to even 'discuss' nuclear power for years...
Which is the whole point to this thread, some people IN Labor now want to have a debate on the nuclear power issue..
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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #111 - Dec 1st, 2010 at 3:11pm
 
gizmo, what do you want government to do? Beg someone to build a NPP?

I don't get it - either we are in a free market, where a corporation can make a proposal, or we are not - which is it?

No corporation has made a proposal, so I just don't understand what this is all about.

Or is it that everyone expects the government to build the plants?
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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #112 - Dec 1st, 2010 at 3:13pm
 
Equitist wrote on Dec 1st, 2010 at 10:24am:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 1st, 2010 at 10:12am:
Equitist wrote on Dec 1st, 2010 at 10:04am:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 1st, 2010 at 10:01am:
Hinkley Point A, B and now C.
Oldbury

Three separate power plants that were within 20 miles of where I grew up.

Not a single accident.
Not a single damaging leak.

What do they provide?

Emissions free power.

Such a problem?

Australia here suffers from insularity and ignorance on the nuclear issue. They seem to think a Chernobyl will happen every year.

That's like not getting on a plane from Melbourne to Sydney because of what happened to the Air France flight.


So, you would be happy for your offspring to be devoured in that Nuclear triangle today!?




I would be happy for my daughters to grow up where I did and have no concerns that those power plants provide anything other than emissions free power.

Indeed, right now in California, we live probably not that far from one.

Scare tactics have over-shadowed the debate for too long down in Australia.



I am not using scare tactics:  I genuinely fear the uncontrollable energy of nukes - and I don't trust my fellow human beings to design and operate a sufficiently fool-proof and fail-safe system...



Equit, you ARE using the 'greens' scare tactics......Humans have managed to control the "uncontrollable energy" of nuclear reactors for some 60 years....and there've been TWO 'major' incidents in that time...and a few lesser incidents...There have been far more 'accidents' involving coal/gas and hydro power plants in that same time frame..
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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #113 - Dec 1st, 2010 at 3:18pm
 
Please delete wrote on Dec 1st, 2010 at 3:11pm:
gizmo, what do you want government to do? Beg someone to build a NPP?

I don't get it - either we are in a free market, where a corporation can make a proposal, or we are not - which is it?

No corporation has made a proposal, so I just don't understand what this is all about.

Or is it that everyone expects the government to build the plants?


No ernie...in order to build a nuclear power plant, a private company STILL needs Government permission to do so...

Even if a private corporation has the money to build a nuclear power plant, if the Federal/State Government says 'NO'..then they can't do so...

It's the same as if YOU want to build a swimming pool, if the council refuses permission...then you CAN'T..
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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #114 - Dec 1st, 2010 at 3:21pm
 
"No ernie...in order to build a nuclear power plant, a private company STILL needs Government permission to do so..."

That's a process - what else would you expect?
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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #115 - Dec 1st, 2010 at 3:22pm
 
"It's the same as if YOU want to build a swimming pool, if the council refuses permission...then you CAN'T.. "

Yes? And?

I'm waiting for your point - what is the problem there??
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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #116 - Dec 1st, 2010 at 3:24pm
 
Let me make this plain, as I see it.

There is NO IMPEDIMENT to a corporation putting forward a plan to build a NPP.

There is also no impediment to a debate on the matter.

I can't understand - do Ferguson et al simply "want a debate" and no-one will take them on?

What is the problem?
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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #117 - Dec 1st, 2010 at 3:26pm
 
Please delete wrote on Dec 1st, 2010 at 3:22pm:
"It's the same as if YOU want to build a swimming pool, if the council refuses permission...then you CAN'T.. "

Yes? And?

I'm waiting for your point - what is the problem there??



The problem is that the Labor Government hasn't approved the 'idea' of nuclear power plants...so until Labor/Parliment actually approves the idea of nuclear power...NO-ONE can build a nuclear power plant..
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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #118 - Dec 1st, 2010 at 3:29pm
 
"The problem is that the Labor Government hasn't approved the 'idea' of nuclear power plants...so until Labor/Parliment actually approves the idea of nuclear power...NO-ONE can build a nuclear power plant.. "

On what basis? What legislation stops someone initiating a plan to build a NPP in, say, Wollongong? For wholesale supply of electricity?
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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #119 - Dec 1st, 2010 at 3:30pm
 
Please delete wrote on Dec 1st, 2010 at 3:24pm:
Let me make this plain, as I see it.

There is NO IMPEDIMENT to a corporation putting forward a plan to build a NPP.

There is also no impediment to a debate on the matter.

I can't understand - do Ferguson et al simply "want a debate" and no-one will take them on?

What is the problem?



AHH so you DON'T see the idea clearly...

Ferguson et al...NEED the idea of nuclear power to be ok'd by the Government before anyone can actually build a nuclear power plant..(at this moment nuclear power IS illegal)...which IS why they want the debate..
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