Australian Politics Forum - ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power

gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power Reply #300 - Dec 8^th, 2010 at 3:49pm Please delete wrote on Dec 8^th, 2010 at 3:48pm: Whereas NPPs (from what I remember) use water to cool the chamber, then flush the heated water into a river or whatever. It needs LOTS of water. Most of them have cooling towers though...
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Please delete Gold Member Offline Please delete this smacking PROFILE Posts: 2936	Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power Reply #301 - Dec 8^th, 2010 at 3:50pm http://www.aph.gov.au/Library/pubs/rn/2006-07/07rn12.pdf You are better at reading these things than I ...
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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #302 - Dec 8^th, 2010 at 3:56pm

Nuclear reactors in numerous European countries have been periodically taken off-line or operated at reduced output in recent years because of water shortages driven by climate change, drought and heat waves. Nuclear utilities have also sought and secured exemptions from operating conditions in order to discharge overheated water.

The water consumption of renewable energy sources and energy efficiency and conservation measures is negligible compared to nuclear or coal. Operating a 2,400 Watt fan heater for one hour consumes 0.01 litres of water if wind is the energy source, 0.26 litres if solar is the energy source, 4.5 litres if coal is the energy source, or 5.5 litres if nuclear power is the energy source.

http://www.sciencealert.com.au/opinions/20072910-16508.html

Another reason for a dry country like Australia to consider renewables over coal OR Nuclear?

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gizmo_2655

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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #303 - Dec 8^th, 2010 at 3:58pm

Please delete wrote on Dec 8^th, 2010 at 3:50pm:

http://www.aph.gov.au/Library/pubs/rn/2006-07/07rn12.pdf

You are better at reading these things than I ...

The BWR or 'Boiling Water Reactor' is a closed system too, just like the solar thermal turbines...

The cooling water is used as steam to drive the turbine, then cooled and used again..

The type of reactor that dumped the cooling water is a pretty old design and not the only design now..

It'd work well where there's a good supply of water, like beside a river....But there are other designs that use less (or no) water for cooling...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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gizmo_2655

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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #304 - Dec 8^th, 2010 at 3:59pm

Please delete wrote on Dec 8^th, 2010 at 3:56pm:

Nuclear reactors in numerous European countries have been periodically taken off-line or operated at reduced output in recent years because of water shortages driven by climate change, drought and heat waves. Nuclear utilities have also sought and secured exemptions from operating conditions in order to discharge overheated water.

The water consumption of renewable energy sources and energy efficiency and conservation measures is negligible compared to nuclear or coal. Operating a 2,400 Watt fan heater for one hour consumes 0.01 litres of water if wind is the energy source, 0.26 litres if solar is the energy source, 4.5 litres if coal is the energy source, or 5.5 litres if nuclear power is the energy source.

http://www.sciencealert.com.au/opinions/20072910-16508.html

Another reason for a dry country like Australia to consider renewables over coal OR Nuclear?

Another specious reason anyway...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Please delete Gold Member Offline Please delete this smacking PROFILE Posts: 2936	Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power Reply #305 - Dec 8^th, 2010 at 4:00pm I agree, but then you have to choose your nuclear design with that in mind.
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Please delete Gold Member Offline Please delete this smacking PROFILE Posts: 2936	Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power Reply #306 - Dec 8^th, 2010 at 4:01pm "Another specious reason anyway" You mean you don't think water usage is a parameter??
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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power Reply #307 - Dec 8^th, 2010 at 4:02pm Please delete wrote on Dec 8^th, 2010 at 4:00pm: I agree, but then you have to choose your nuclear design with that in mind. Then lets DO so.....You can even use sodium for coolant, or gas, liquid metal or molten salts...
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gizmo_2655

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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #308 - Dec 8^th, 2010 at 4:05pm

Please delete wrote on Dec 8^th, 2010 at 4:01pm:

"Another specious reason anyway"

You mean you don't think water usage is a parameter??

No I don't...The European reactors are all bult close to water supplies, so naturally, they'd use the 'once through' cooling system rather than spend the extra money on condensers and water cooling systems....it's appropriate for the location....

In drier areas, you use a 'closed loop' cooling and turbine system..

It's like complaining that hydro electric isn't viable in the Simpson Desert......of COURSE it isn't, so you use some other system....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Miss Anne Dryst Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2296 Sydney Gender:	Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power Reply #309 - Dec 8^th, 2010 at 4:47pm Knowing Labor they would build a nuclear power plant right next door to a desalination plant.
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38532 Gender:	Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power Reply #310 - Dec 8^th, 2010 at 5:22pm Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 8^th, 2010 at 4:47pm: Knowing Labor they would build a nuclear power plant right next door to a desalination plant. And that would be an error because?
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Miss Anne Dryst Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2296 Sydney Gender:	Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power Reply #311 - Dec 8^th, 2010 at 5:26pm Aussie wrote on Dec 8^th, 2010 at 5:22pm: Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 8^th, 2010 at 4:47pm: Knowing Labor they would build a nuclear power plant right next door to a desalination plant. And that would be an error because? You need this explained to you?
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38532 Gender:	Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power Reply #312 - Dec 8^th, 2010 at 5:28pm That would be a 10/4 Big Buddy. That is why I asked the question!
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Miss Anne Dryst

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Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power
Reply #313 - Dec 8^th, 2010 at 5:30pm

Aussie wrote on Dec 8^th, 2010 at 5:28pm:

That would be a 10/4 Big Buddy. That is why I asked the question!

Cheesy

If you need to ask such a basic question then you wouldn't be able to comprehend the answer.

But, just think about the two types of plants and see if you can work it out yourself.

“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today.
Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime”
—Author unknown

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38532 Gender:	Re: ALP flip flop on Nuclear Power Reply #314 - Dec 8^th, 2010 at 7:18pm Quote: If you need to ask such a basic question then you wouldn't be able to comprehend the answer. But, just think about the two types of plants and see if you can work it out yourself. Come on Big Buddy. Teach me how to fish. You have the floor, and I am all eyes.
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Question: NUCLEAR POLL (choose ALL options that apply): -
I support Nuclear Power in OZ 100% I support a Nuke plant in MY backyard I support a Nuke plant in YOUR backyard I'm not sure if I support Nukes in OZ Nukes will cause mass Darwin Awards Nukes: a short term solution & long term problem No way, no Nukes for OZ - never! The LibLabs must stop sabotaging renewables « Last Modified by: Equitist on: Dec 1^st, 2010 at 9:15am »