Australian Politics Forum - The Cost Of Liberal Party's Inaction On CC

skippy. Gold Member Offline Posts: 20882 Gender:	Re: The Cost Of Liberal Party's Inaction On CC Reply #180 - Dec 10^th, 2010 at 7:57pm My first assessment of you was correct, you do not have the capacity to understand the basics no matter how easy they are broken down for you. I'm wasting my time trying to explain it to you.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: The Cost Of Liberal Party's Inaction On CC
Reply #181 - Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:23am

skippy. wrote on Dec 10^th, 2010 at 7:57pm:

My first assessment of you was correct, you do not have the capacity to understand the basics no matter how easy they are broken down for you.
I'm wasting my time trying to explain it to you.

I'm good at understanding, you are just having trouble explaining...

For example, the 'pumping gases into a room' analogy fails to work, because without an external heat source, the only thing that will cause an increase in temperature is atmospheric pressure greater than 101.325 kPa (sea level pressure) and unless the atmospheric pressure doubles from sea level in the 'room' the gases won't heat......

And, unlike a room, the Earth's atmosphere is NOT a sealed system....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Miss Anne Dryst Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2296 Sydney Gender:	Re: The Cost Of Liberal Party's Inaction On CC Reply #182 - Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:29am gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:23am: And, unlike a room, the Earth's atmosphere is NOT a sealed system.... Isn't it? Why do you say that?
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gizmo_2655

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Re: The Cost Of Liberal Party's Inaction On CC
Reply #183 - Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:45am

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:29am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:23am:

And, unlike a room, the Earth's atmosphere is NOT a sealed system....

Isn't it?
Why do you say that?

Is there a solid 'wall' or shield around the Earth??

No, the atmosphere envelope extends and retracts due to pressure and temperature changes...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Miss Anne Dryst

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Re: The Cost Of Liberal Party's Inaction On CC
Reply #184 - Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:52am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:45am:

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:29am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:23am:

And, unlike a room, the Earth's atmosphere is NOT a sealed system....

Isn't it?
Why do you say that?

Is there a solid 'wall' or shield around the Earth??

No, the atmosphere envelope extends and retracts due to pressure and temperature changes...

But there's no leakage.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: The Cost Of Liberal Party's Inaction On CC
Reply #185 - Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:58am

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:52am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:45am:

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:29am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:23am:

And, unlike a room, the Earth's atmosphere is NOT a sealed system....

Isn't it?
Why do you say that?

Is there a solid 'wall' or shield around the Earth??

No, the atmosphere envelope extends and retracts due to pressure and temperature changes...

But there's no leakage.

But neither is there an upper limit...the atmosphere just gets thinner the further from the surface...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Miss Anne Dryst

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Re: The Cost Of Liberal Party's Inaction On CC
Reply #186 - Dec 11^th, 2010 at 8:04am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:58am:

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:52am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:45am:

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:29am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:23am:

And, unlike a room, the Earth's atmosphere is NOT a sealed system....

Isn't it?
Why do you say that?

Is there a solid 'wall' or shield around the Earth??

No, the atmosphere envelope extends and retracts due to pressure and temperature changes...

But there's no leakage.

But neither is there an upper limit...the atmosphere just gets thinner the further from the surface...

So the atmosphere is like a membrane that retains.
No need for a "solid" wall when a flexible one is just as effective and much more appropriate.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: The Cost Of Liberal Party's Inaction On CC
Reply #187 - Dec 11^th, 2010 at 8:07am

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 8:04am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:58am:

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:52am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:45am:

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:29am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:23am:

And, unlike a room, the Earth's atmosphere is NOT a sealed system....

Isn't it?
Why do you say that?

Is there a solid 'wall' or shield around the Earth??

No, the atmosphere envelope extends and retracts due to pressure and temperature changes...

But there's no leakage.

But neither is there an upper limit...the atmosphere just gets thinner the further from the surface...

So the atmosphere is like a membrane that retains.
No need for a "solid" wall when a flexible one is just as effective and much more appropriate.

Almost, there's no membrane or anything....mostly gravity keeps the atmosphere close, but there isn't any 'line' otherwise, we couldn't reach orbit or space without 'ripping it'..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Miss Anne Dryst

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Re: The Cost Of Liberal Party's Inaction On CC
Reply #188 - Dec 11^th, 2010 at 8:10am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 8:07am:

Almost, there's no membrane or anything....mostly gravity keeps the atmosphere close, but there isn't any 'line' otherwise, we couldn't reach orbit or space without 'ripping it'..

Yes the gravity and atmosphere act as that force.

Wouldn't the NASA launches being doing more harm than anything to the atmosphere than any deoderants, air sprays etc, and alleged climate change?

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The_Barnacle

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Re: The Cost Of Liberal Party's Inaction On CC
Reply #189 - Dec 11^th, 2010 at 9:02am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 10^th, 2010 at 1:15pm:

I already understand the ways the Earth heats and cools....I also understand the absolute necessity of Green House Gases in order for human life to exist.....

That is exactly right. The gasses that make up our atmosphere absorb heat and make the Earth a comfortable temperature to live on.

And if you accept that truth then you also have to accept that if you CHANGE the relative proportions of the gasses in the atmosphere (for example, increasing the proportion of one of the gasses) then that is going to change the way the atmosphere absorbs heat and it is going to change the climate.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: The Cost Of Liberal Party's Inaction On CC
Reply #190 - Dec 11^th, 2010 at 9:50am

Miss Anne Dryst wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 8:10am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 8:07am:

Almost, there's no membrane or anything....mostly gravity keeps the atmosphere close, but there isn't any 'line' otherwise, we couldn't reach orbit or space without 'ripping it'..

Yes the gravity and atmosphere act as that force.

Wouldn't the NASA launches being doing more harm than anything to the atmosphere than any deoderants, air sprays etc, and alleged climate change?

Why would they? There's nothing solid to damage by the launches....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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gizmo_2655

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Re: The Cost Of Liberal Party's Inaction On CC
Reply #191 - Dec 11^th, 2010 at 9:52am

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 9:02am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 10^th, 2010 at 1:15pm:

I already understand the ways the Earth heats and cools....I also understand the absolute necessity of Green House Gases in order for human life to exist.....

That is exactly right. The gasses that make up our atmosphere absorb heat and make the Earth a comfortable temperature to live on.

And if you accept that truth then you also have to accept that if you CHANGE the relative proportions of the gasses in the atmosphere (for example, increasing the proportion of one of the gasses) then that is going to change the way the atmosphere absorbs heat and it is going to change the climate.

Providing you ignore the fact that the gases (particularly Co2, and H2o to a lesser extent) don't STAY in the atmosphere....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: The Cost Of Liberal Party's Inaction On CC Reply #192 - Dec 11^th, 2010 at 10:04am This thread is hilarious. It reminds me of something: Which is heavier, a witch or a duck ? Sorry, I don't get involved in discussions that confuse politics with science.
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The_Barnacle

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Re: The Cost Of Liberal Party's Inaction On CC
Reply #193 - Dec 11^th, 2010 at 10:05am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 9:52am:

Providing you ignore the fact that the gases (particularly Co2, and H2o to a lesser extent) don't STAY in the atmosphere....

Clearly water vapour concentrations aren't going to change the climate. It rather easily falls out as rain. So in general water vapour in the atmosphere remains the same.

CO2 levels are increasing as has been measured by instruments on Hawaii, Tasmania and other areas where pure generic air can be tested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CO2-Mauna-Loa.png

This shows that we are pumping CO2 into the atmosphere faster than it can be absorbed out of the atmosphere.

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longweekend58

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Re: The Cost Of Liberal Party's Inaction On CC
Reply #194 - Dec 11^th, 2010 at 10:16am

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 10:05am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2010 at 9:52am:

Providing you ignore the fact that the gases (particularly Co2, and H2o to a lesser extent) don't STAY in the atmosphere....

Clearly water vapour concentrations aren't going to change the climate. It rather easily falls out as rain. So in general water vapour in the atmosphere remains the same.

CO2 levels are increasing as has been measured by instruments on Hawaii, Tasmania and other areas where pure generic air can be tested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CO2-Mauna-Loa.png

This shows that we are pumping CO2 into the atmosphere faster than it can be absorbed out of the atmosphere.

A lot of presumptions.

A) that CO2 concentrations actually matter
B) that concentrations dont naturally vary over time

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