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Question: Is Andrew Bolt fit to publish?



« Created by: Equitist on: Dec 16th, 2010 at 4:14pm »

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Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign (Read 30253 times)
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #165 - Dec 17th, 2010 at 3:25pm
 
"American pacifists in WW2 refused to accept that Hitler was mistreating jews. that was their main reason for not wanting to get involved in the war. There was no definite proof at the time. remember how that worked out? "

can anyone name this style of fallacious argument for me? It's not ad hominem, and not strawman ....
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #166 - Dec 17th, 2010 at 3:26pm
 
Lets look at the facts

The USA supported and funded the Taliban, Osama Bin Laden and the child raping warlords who ran the northern alliance.
Why? Because they wanted to teach Russia a lesson.
The problems in Afghanistan that led to the 11th of september attack were created by the USA and when they had Bin Laden by the jatz crackers they eased off and invaded Iraq!

Next.
The USA sold the technology for the WMD's to their boy in the middle east (Saddam Hussien) so he could rain hell on Iran.
One reason for the GW Bush invasion was a personal vandetta because he was making the USA look like dimwits..like that was hard to do  Grin
The USA govt didnt give a rats tossbag that Saddam had a few roos loose in the top paddock and was murdering and torturing his own people until he decided to sell oil to China and France in Euros and put the USA oil industry and the US dollar at risk.
I supported the invasion of Afghanistan while they were chasing Bin Laden and then Bush diverted resources to Iraq to save US oil interests and blew the whole reason for invading.
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #167 - Dec 17th, 2010 at 3:27pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 3:20pm:
Dnarever wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 3:04pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 2:54pm:
Left wingers traditionally are anti-war.

Right back to 1939 there were Left wingers campaigning for appeasement.

I wish, sometimes, they had some backbone and were in favour of going and kicking ass.



I am willing to consider kicking butt if required.

But I do not like to be lied to in order to give that support.

We went in because of WMD's, there were none end of story.

Our PM told us that he had personally seen definitive proof which he could not share with us - that proof never existed.


American pacifists in WW2 refused to accept that Hitler was mistreating jews. that was their main reason for not wanting to get involved in the war. There was no definite proof at the time. remember how that worked out?


Its amazing how the rightwing loonies will put any spin on its lies to try and condone them.

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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #168 - Dec 17th, 2010 at 3:29pm
 
codswal wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 2:40pm:
Dnarever wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 2:15pm:
Quote:
Iraq had attacked its neighbours (unprovoked) to both the east and the south.
It fired missiles on an innocent third country.
It gassed its own people.
It starved the Shias.
It murdered thousands of Kurds.
It threatened our developed world energy supply.
It gave harbour to terrorists.


Not one of these were given as a reason for the illegal invasion, neither the USA, UK or Australian governments were willing to take action about that stuff some of which is untrue.





what happened to Kuwait.????

but its good to see you admit it was a terrible regime, most lefties paint Saddam insane as a martyr.

he did a lot of genocide, but I am not so sure one country can attack another over that.the man was mad so its good to see you admit that.


THAT was the previous war..Desert Storm...After which, Saddam pretty much left Kuwait and the Kurds alone..
He 'tried' to act out, got his butt kick and decided to play nice...Which WAS the point to 'Desert Storm"...
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #169 - Dec 17th, 2010 at 3:39pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 3:29pm:
codswal wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 2:40pm:
Dnarever wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 2:15pm:
Quote:
Iraq had attacked its neighbours (unprovoked) to both the east and the south.
It fired missiles on an innocent third country.
It gassed its own people.
It starved the Shias.
It murdered thousands of Kurds.
It threatened our developed world energy supply.
It gave harbour to terrorists.


Not one of these were given as a reason for the illegal invasion, neither the USA, UK or Australian governments were willing to take action about that stuff some of which is untrue.





what happened to Kuwait.????

but its good to see you admit it was a terrible regime, most lefties paint Saddam insane as a martyr.

he did a lot of genocide, but I am not so sure one country can attack another over that.the man was mad so its good to see you admit that.


THAT was the previous war..Desert Storm...After which, Saddam pretty much left Kuwait and the Kurds alone..
He 'tried' to act out, got his butt kick and decided to play nice...Which WAS the point to 'Desert Storm"...




I was referring to dnare who listed a long list of reasons for attacking saddam...he forgot to mention the one where they did attack him thats all.
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #170 - Dec 17th, 2010 at 3:48pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 2:54pm:
Left wingers traditionally are anti-war.





I'D be astounded at anyone admitting to being PRO-war
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #171 - Dec 17th, 2010 at 3:54pm
 
buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 3:48pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 2:54pm:
Left wingers traditionally are anti-war.





I'D be astounded at anyone admitting to being PRO-war


what are you? A CHILD????

WHo started WW2?  oh thats right... CHURCHILL. because he declared war and Hitler didnt.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #172 - Dec 17th, 2010 at 3:59pm
 
buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 1:27pm:
codswal wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 1:16pm:
Dnarever wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 12:57pm:
I do not recall Bolt calling on the previous Lib'n PM to resign when he had ordered the illegal invasion of a couintry by mistake, he got half the reasons wrong and lied to support the other half.




good try dnare... NO AUSTRALIAN LOST HIS/HER LIFE IN IRAQ... DUE TO ENEMY FIRE.... .  







No,
Just 100,000 plus civilian men, women and children
due to "friendly fire"


And the one ADF personel suicide


And the 5,000 plus US defence personel - a figure higher than
the combined 9/11 fatalities

(and it eventuated that IRAQ had no involvement)



I dont remember 9/11 being a reason for our involvement in Iraq.

It was the BS weapons of mass distruction and then freeing the Iraqi people.
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #173 - Dec 17th, 2010 at 4:00pm
 
Please delete wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 3:25pm:
"American pacifists in WW2 refused to accept that Hitler was mistreating jews. that was their main reason for not wanting to get involved in the war. There was no definite proof at the time. remember how that worked out? "

can anyone name this style of fallacious argument for me? It's not ad hominem, and not strawman ....


Its called an EXAMPLE, you narrow-minded twit.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #174 - Dec 17th, 2010 at 4:00pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 2:54pm:
Left wingers traditionally are anti-war.

Right back to 1939 there were Left wingers campaigning for appeasement.

I wish, sometimes, they had some backbone and were in favour of going and kicking ass.


I'm anti-war
I'd much rather see a pollies head explode than 1 to 2 million ordinary people suffer for a few's ego & meglomania.
But of course that sort of thing is illegal.
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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #175 - Dec 17th, 2010 at 4:03pm
 
Quote:
Are your hands clean of blood, Andrew? December 17, 2010 - 2:04PM
Comments 113

I once called Andrew Bolt a worthless bloodclot, for which I must apologise. To bloodclots everywhere. For Bolt however, there is only scorn, slight regard and contempt. Here is a man possessed of such an ardent need to inject the poison of his enmities into the body politic that even as bodies are being dragged from the sea off Christmas Island he spits a rhetorical gob of the purest partisan venom in our eyes.

This is Bolt, a man so inflamed by John Howard’s assurances that the heavy hand of war must be laid upon Iraq that he harboured not the slightest doubt about the righteousness of raining down fire and death and sorrow, not just on Saddam but on those millions of captives with whom he had surrounded himself. A whole people as a shield, if you will.

Confronted on Lateline, by David Marr, about Howard’s history of playing fast and loose with the truth during the 'Children Overboard' scandal, and whether it weakened his case for war, Bolt retorted, "What is possibly the advice that you think he has that you don't have access to that could change your mind on this? Because, really, I see no claim that he makes that cannot be utterly substantiated by material that's right on the public record, that you can see for yourself if you bother to check."

And thus hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were utterly substantiated to death, their country laid to waste and condemned to a perdition of blood and savagery. Not to worry though. I am sure their deaths were liberating and any ruin and destruction was a merciful release from the tyrant Saddam’s bane.

Of course, should any of them lack a taste for slaughter – perhaps because they stood so much closer to it than courageous Bolt – should they attempt to flee the carnage with their children in small, overcrowded boats, for instance… then damn their eyes! They are jumping the queue. They are assailing our precious sovereignty. They might very well be terrorists! Send the navy and turn them back. Turn them back. Turn them back and if they founder and are lost then who’s fault was that? Certainly not ours.

This is Bolt who yesterday and today laid every torn and dripping corpse from that awful wreck at the feet of Julia Gillard. Bolt who roused himself in righteousness to defend the poor, poor pitiable seekers of asylum, for whom he has always had nought but the very purest compassion and the most generous and charitable heart.

This is Bolt, just so you know, in case you fail to recognise him from his sudden change of raiment, from stern, uncompromising defender of our borders, to Bolt who all but weeps and rends his vestments with grief and rage that Canberra’s failure should have come to this. To death and sadness and horror.

Not the death and sadness and horror visited upon the Iraqi people in the course of a war for which no just cause existed. No. Not that. Because to trace that thin golden thread of causation to a war for which he bellowed his support might raise the prospect that perhaps his most beloved champion, the sainted former PM Howard, might somehow have had something to do creating the conditions that put at least some of those who died this week onto that boat in the first place.

As did Bolt himself, I would argue, being one of the crudest advocates of that war and the aftermath from which so many have fled, or tried to flee, until they ran into the Ring of Iron with which he would protect us from the bloody anarchy his heroes loosed upon the world.

If Julia Gillard has blood on her hands, Mister Bolt, might we look forward to the spectre of John Howard scraping at his palms one day and muttering, “Out, out damn’d spot”.

Will you attend him then with the same loyalty and steadfastness that kept you at his side through the bloodswarm he helped unleash upon Iraq, from whence at least some of the dead hailed this week? Might you ponder you own hands then?



http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/blogs/blunt-instrument/are-your-hands-cl...
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #176 - Dec 17th, 2010 at 4:09pm
 
skippy. wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 4:03pm:
Quote:
Are your hands clean of blood, Andrew? December 17, 2010 - 2:04PM
Comments 113

I once called Andrew Bolt a worthless bloodclot, for which I must apologise. To bloodclots everywhere. For Bolt however, there is only scorn, slight regard and contempt. Here is a man possessed of such an ardent need to inject the poison of his enmities into the body politic that even as bodies are being dragged from the sea off Christmas Island he spits a rhetorical gob of the purest partisan venom in our eyes.

This is Bolt, a man so inflamed by John Howard’s assurances that the heavy hand of war must be laid upon Iraq that he harboured not the slightest doubt about the righteousness of raining down fire and death and sorrow, not just on Saddam but on those millions of captives with whom he had surrounded himself. A whole people as a shield, if you will.

Confronted on Lateline, by David Marr, about Howard’s history of playing fast and loose with the truth during the 'Children Overboard' scandal, and whether it weakened his case for war, Bolt retorted, "What is possibly the advice that you think he has that you don't have access to that could change your mind on this? Because, really, I see no claim that he makes that cannot be utterly substantiated by material that's right on the public record, that you can see for yourself if you bother to check."

And thus hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were utterly substantiated to death, their country laid to waste and condemned to a perdition of blood and savagery. Not to worry though. I am sure their deaths were liberating and any ruin and destruction was a merciful release from the tyrant Saddam’s bane.

Of course, should any of them lack a taste for slaughter – perhaps because they stood so much closer to it than courageous Bolt – should they attempt to flee the carnage with their children in small, overcrowded boats, for instance… then damn their eyes! They are jumping the queue. They are assailing our precious sovereignty. They might very well be terrorists! Send the navy and turn them back. Turn them back. Turn them back and if they founder and are lost then who’s fault was that? Certainly not ours.

This is Bolt who yesterday and today laid every torn and dripping corpse from that awful wreck at the feet of Julia Gillard. Bolt who roused himself in righteousness to defend the poor, poor pitiable seekers of asylum, for whom he has always had nought but the very purest compassion and the most generous and charitable heart.

This is Bolt, just so you know, in case you fail to recognise him from his sudden change of raiment, from stern, uncompromising defender of our borders, to Bolt who all but weeps and rends his vestments with grief and rage that Canberra’s failure should have come to this. To death and sadness and horror.

Not the death and sadness and horror visited upon the Iraqi people in the course of a war for which no just cause existed. No. Not that. Because to trace that thin golden thread of causation to a war for which he bellowed his support might raise the prospect that perhaps his most beloved champion, the sainted former PM Howard, might somehow have had something to do creating the conditions that put at least some of those who died this week onto that boat in the first place.

As did Bolt himself, I would argue, being one of the crudest advocates of that war and the aftermath from which so many have fled, or tried to flee, until they ran into the Ring of Iron with which he would protect us from the bloody anarchy his heroes loosed upon the world.

If Julia Gillard has blood on her hands, Mister Bolt, might we look forward to the spectre of John Howard scraping at his palms one day and muttering, “Out, out damn’d spot”.

Will you attend him then with the same loyalty and steadfastness that kept you at his side through the bloodswarm he helped unleash upon Iraq, from whence at least some of the dead hailed this week? Might you ponder you own hands then?



http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/blogs/blunt-instrument/are-your-hands-cl...


A fair retort, but I dont see how Bolt can have blood on his hands.

He is not a decision maker, the stroke of his pen didnt condemn anyone to death.  Supporting a party in good faith does not equal having blood on your hands as a civillian.

Does Howard for what happened in Iraq, most certaintly, as does every other pollie in Federal parliment who backed it on the floor who knew the truth yet backed the lie.

At the time I backed it on good faith.  After learning the truth is was easy to vote Labor in 07.
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #177 - Dec 17th, 2010 at 4:10pm
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 4:00pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 2:54pm:
Left wingers traditionally are anti-war.

Right back to 1939 there were Left wingers campaigning for appeasement.

I wish, sometimes, they had some backbone and were in favour of going and kicking ass.


I'm anti-war
I'd much rather see a pollies head explode than 1 to 2 million ordinary people suffer for a few's ego & meglomania.
But of course that sort of thing is illegal.


Thats a shockingly naive attitude. what do u do when u see a woman being attacked by a man? say 'im anti violence'? and when someone comes at you with an axe do you stand there because you dont believe in fighting?

You arent anti-war... why dont you try and redefine it correctly.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #178 - Dec 17th, 2010 at 4:15pm
 
Quote:
what do u do when u see a woman being attacked by a man?

I'm sure smithy would do a lot more than you.
Lets face it when confronted with the sexual assault of five women you are on record as saying, and I quote "at least they were adults".
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #179 - Dec 17th, 2010 at 4:18pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 4:10pm:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 4:00pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 17th, 2010 at 2:54pm:
Left wingers traditionally are anti-war.

Right back to 1939 there were Left wingers campaigning for appeasement.

I wish, sometimes, they had some backbone and were in favour of going and kicking ass.


I'm anti-war
I'd much rather see a pollies head explode than 1 to 2 million ordinary people suffer for a few's ego & meglomania.
But of course that sort of thing is illegal.


Thats a shockingly naive attitude. what do u do when u see a woman being attacked by a man? say 'im anti violence'? and when someone comes at you with an axe do you stand there because you dont believe in fighting?

You arent anti-war... why dont you try and redefine it correctly.


I think most here(yes even you longy) can understand the point I was getting across without having to be lead by the nose.
Except of course those who read & believe Bolt, & I don't give a rats whether they can understand or not
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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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