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Question: Is Andrew Bolt fit to publish?



« Created by: Equitist on: Dec 16th, 2010 at 4:14pm »

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Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign (Read 30237 times)
Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #300 - Dec 20th, 2010 at 12:41pm
 
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 11:24am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 18th, 2010 at 5:40pm:
codswal wrote on Dec 18th, 2010 at 4:32pm:
As for your own "reasoning", you say he is "telling it how he sees it". Well, that counts for zero. Anyone capable of putting a couple sentences together can "tell it how he sees it".  If a 4 year old "tells us how he/she sees it" then that seems good enough for you, which, by default, utterly destroys any supposed superiority in Bolt's arguments.

time.

---------------------


hes a journalist he is paid as a journalist... if thats your take on it.. then that goes for every journalist that ever was..

get over yourself... do as I do.. dont read the ones you dont like...

he will never say what you lwant to hear...

that everything this govt does and has done is fantastic.isgreat. is showing great leadership..blah.blah.blah.

infact right now you will fin d it bloody hard to find one journalist on your side of the fence saying anything worthy of LABOR....so you will find it hard to find someone to read..


The very fact that Bolt is masquerading as a journalist is the problem. Bolt is subverting the chain of cause and effect to suit his political ends. To claim Gillard "has blood on her hands" is to make Gillard responsible for the weather, rough seas, rocks, crappy boats, the people on the aforementioned boat, and the smugglers. Where is the responsibility of those on the boat? and the smugglers? How can anyone be blamed for bad weather? Miss Anne Dryst couldn't answer this question and departed from this discussion once she had to contemplate using logic, rather than an aversion for someone (gillard).
Logic 101: having an aversion for something does not make that something responsible for the act in question. Are you intellectually honest? Or are you, like many others here, passing off your hatred for Gillard as if that amounts to any to anything when one epistemologically examines the chain of cause and effect?
If Gillard is responsible for this incident, then, using Bolt's own unique brand of "logic", Bolt is responsible for the deaths of innocents in the Iraq war.



AB warned the government some years ago regarding the potential ramifications of their reckless policy fiddling.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with Gillard being responsible for bad weather or bad boats etc, but it's EVERYTHING to do with the governments removal of a working policy only then to install a failed one.
And then stupidly wait until the problem is well out of hand before recognising that the problem has gotten away from them.
As if their weakening of the policy was ever going to have a different result.
So yes, this government because of it's inept incompetent handling of our border protection system now does have 'blood on it's hands'.
Because that boat would not have been there had the former governments border protection laws still been in force.



Why do you dissolve the responsibility of those on the boat and the smugglers?
Why doesn't Bolt use this particular brand of "reasoning" - blaming people 100 times removed from the act in question - for Liberal politicians and himself?
If Bolt cannot consistently apply this "logic" for all arguments that assign blame, then he has no credibility.
The argument of those claiming Gillard has "blood on her hands" is simple: Their hatred of Gillard is primary, only then do they look around and search for evidence to assign her with blame.
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #301 - Dec 20th, 2010 at 12:43pm
 
codswal wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 12:39pm:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 11:24am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 18th, 2010 at 5:40pm:
codswal wrote on Dec 18th, 2010 at 4:32pm:
As for your own "reasoning", you say he is "telling it how he sees it". Well, that counts for zero. Anyone capable of putting a couple sentences together can "tell it how he sees it".  If a 4 year old "tells us how he/she sees it" then that seems good enough for you, which, by default, utterly destroys any supposed superiority in Bolt's arguments.

time.

---------------------


hes a journalist he is paid as a journalist... if thats your take on it.. then that goes for every journalist that ever was..

get over yourself... do as I do.. dont read the ones you dont like...

he will never say what you lwant to hear...

that everything this govt does and has done is fantastic.isgreat. is showing great leadership..blah.blah.blah.

infact right now you will fin d it bloody hard to find one journalist on your side of the fence saying anything worthy of LABOR....so you will find it hard to find someone to read..


The very fact that Bolt is masquerading as a journalist is the problem. Bolt is subverting the chain of cause and effect to suit his political ends. To claim Gillard "has blood on her hands" is to make Gillard responsible for the weather, rough seas, rocks, crappy boats, the people on the aforementioned boat, and the smugglers. Where is the responsibility of those on the boat? and the smugglers? How can anyone be blamed for bad weather? Miss Anne Dryst couldn't answer this question and departed from this discussion once she had to contemplate using logic, rather than an aversion for someone (gillard).
Logic 101: having an aversion for something does not make that something responsible for the act in question. Are you intellectually honest? Or are you, like many others here, passing off your hatred for Gillard as if that amounts to any to anything when one epistemologically examines the chain of cause and effect?
If Gillard is responsible for this incident, then, using Bolt's own unique brand of "logic", Bolt is responsible for the deaths of innocents in the Iraq war.



AB warned the government some years ago regarding the potential ramifications of their reckless policy fiddling.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with Gillard being responsible for bad weather or bad boats etc, but it's EVERYTHING to do with the governments removal of a working policy only then to install a failed one.
And then stupidly wait until the problem is well out of hand before recognising that the problem has gotten away from them.
As if their weakening of the policy was ever going to have a different result.
So yes, this government because of it's inept incompetent handling of our border protection system now does have 'blood on it's hands'.
Because that boat would not have been there had the former governments border protection laws still been in force.



chicken I dont know how many times that has been spelt out on this forum and others.. they just dont comprehend it..it couldnt possibly have ANYTHING to do with rudd/gillards change of policy...we are dumb for imagining it???.. now we are told that a thriving people smuggling business has errupted overseas.. but again got nothing to do with our govts policies..

wish I knew who was to blame... cant be Howard this time round, can it??.... and its not rudd/gillard.. so WHO????  did cause this influx of over over 100 boats a year..

do you think it was that.. "Where the bloody hell are you"??? ad???

must have been!



And you keep ignoring the responsibility of those on the boat and the smugglers.
You've ingored answering this several times now.
Once people start dodging questions you know they are on the ropes.
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #302 - Dec 20th, 2010 at 12:44pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 12:40pm:
the vote is soundly in favour of Bolt the champ



Yeah, 'cause voting on a debate forum has everything to do with epistemology.  Roll Eyes
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chicken_lipsforme
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #303 - Dec 20th, 2010 at 12:45pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 12:41pm:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 11:24am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 18th, 2010 at 5:40pm:
codswal wrote on Dec 18th, 2010 at 4:32pm:
As for your own "reasoning", you say he is "telling it how he sees it". Well, that counts for zero. Anyone capable of putting a couple sentences together can "tell it how he sees it".  If a 4 year old "tells us how he/she sees it" then that seems good enough for you, which, by default, utterly destroys any supposed superiority in Bolt's arguments.

time.

---------------------


hes a journalist he is paid as a journalist... if thats your take on it.. then that goes for every journalist that ever was..

get over yourself... do as I do.. dont read the ones you dont like...

he will never say what you lwant to hear...

that everything this govt does and has done is fantastic.isgreat. is showing great leadership..blah.blah.blah.

infact right now you will fin d it bloody hard to find one journalist on your side of the fence saying anything worthy of LABOR....so you will find it hard to find someone to read..


The very fact that Bolt is masquerading as a journalist is the problem. Bolt is subverting the chain of cause and effect to suit his political ends. To claim Gillard "has blood on her hands" is to make Gillard responsible for the weather, rough seas, rocks, crappy boats, the people on the aforementioned boat, and the smugglers. Where is the responsibility of those on the boat? and the smugglers? How can anyone be blamed for bad weather? Miss Anne Dryst couldn't answer this question and departed from this discussion once she had to contemplate using logic, rather than an aversion for someone (gillard).
Logic 101: having an aversion for something does not make that something responsible for the act in question. Are you intellectually honest? Or are you, like many others here, passing off your hatred for Gillard as if that amounts to any to anything when one epistemologically examines the chain of cause and effect?
If Gillard is responsible for this incident, then, using Bolt's own unique brand of "logic", Bolt is responsible for the deaths of innocents in the Iraq war.



AB warned the government some years ago regarding the potential ramifications of their reckless policy fiddling.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with Gillard being responsible for bad weather or bad boats etc, but it's EVERYTHING to do with the governments removal of a working policy only then to install a failed one.
And then stupidly wait until the problem is well out of hand before recognising that the problem has gotten away from them.
As if their weakening of the policy was ever going to have a different result.
So yes, this government because of it's inept incompetent handling of our border protection system now does have 'blood on it's hands'.
Because that boat would not have been there had the former governments border protection laws still been in force.



Why do you dissolve the responsibility of those on the boat and the smugglers?
Why doesn't Bolt use this particular brand of "reasoning" - blaming people 100 times removed from the act in question - for Liberal politicians and himself?
If Bolt cannot consistently apply this "logic" for all arguments that assign blame, then he has no credibility.
The argument of those claiming Gillard has "blood on her hands" is simple: Their hatred of Gillard is primary, only then do they look around and search for evidence to assign her with blame.


Because the smugglers will continue to choose Australia as their destination of choice whilst we have a weak government in.
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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #304 - Dec 20th, 2010 at 12:48pm
 
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 12:45pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 12:41pm:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 11:24am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 18th, 2010 at 5:40pm:
codswal wrote on Dec 18th, 2010 at 4:32pm:
As for your own "reasoning", you say he is "telling it how he sees it". Well, that counts for zero. Anyone capable of putting a couple sentences together can "tell it how he sees it".  If a 4 year old "tells us how he/she sees it" then that seems good enough for you, which, by default, utterly destroys any supposed superiority in Bolt's arguments.

time.

---------------------


hes a journalist he is paid as a journalist... if thats your take on it.. then that goes for every journalist that ever was..

get over yourself... do as I do.. dont read the ones you dont like...

he will never say what you lwant to hear...

that everything this govt does and has done is fantastic.isgreat. is showing great leadership..blah.blah.blah.

infact right now you will fin d it bloody hard to find one journalist on your side of the fence saying anything worthy of LABOR....so you will find it hard to find someone to read..


The very fact that Bolt is masquerading as a journalist is the problem. Bolt is subverting the chain of cause and effect to suit his political ends. To claim Gillard "has blood on her hands" is to make Gillard responsible for the weather, rough seas, rocks, crappy boats, the people on the aforementioned boat, and the smugglers. Where is the responsibility of those on the boat? and the smugglers? How can anyone be blamed for bad weather? Miss Anne Dryst couldn't answer this question and departed from this discussion once she had to contemplate using logic, rather than an aversion for someone (gillard).
Logic 101: having an aversion for something does not make that something responsible for the act in question. Are you intellectually honest? Or are you, like many others here, passing off your hatred for Gillard as if that amounts to any to anything when one epistemologically examines the chain of cause and effect?
If Gillard is responsible for this incident, then, using Bolt's own unique brand of "logic", Bolt is responsible for the deaths of innocents in the Iraq war.



AB warned the government some years ago regarding the potential ramifications of their reckless policy fiddling.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with Gillard being responsible for bad weather or bad boats etc, but it's EVERYTHING to do with the governments removal of a working policy only then to install a failed one.
And then stupidly wait until the problem is well out of hand before recognising that the problem has gotten away from them.
As if their weakening of the policy was ever going to have a different result.
So yes, this government because of it's inept incompetent handling of our border protection system now does have 'blood on it's hands'.
Because that boat would not have been there had the former governments border protection laws still been in force.



Why do you dissolve the responsibility of those on the boat and the smugglers?
Why doesn't Bolt use this particular brand of "reasoning" - blaming people 100 times removed from the act in question - for Liberal politicians and himself?
If Bolt cannot consistently apply this "logic" for all arguments that assign blame, then he has no credibility.
The argument of those claiming Gillard has "blood on her hands" is simple: Their hatred of Gillard is primary, only then do they look around and search for evidence to assign her with blame.


Because the smugglers will continue to choose Australia as their destination of choice whilst we have a weak government in.



So they're effectively not responsible for what they do?
Wrong, they must take responsibility for their actions.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #305 - Dec 20th, 2010 at 1:05pm
 

"And you keep ignoring the responsibility of those on the boat and the smugglers.
You've ingored answering this several times now.
Once people start dodging questions you know they are on the ropes. [/quote]"

There is responsibilty on behalf of the smugglers and their clients, yes that's true....

However, the NUMBER of boat people means a shortage of seaworthy boats for the smugglers to use, which lead to the dreadful accident ...

And the NUMBER of people trying to reach Australia via the 'backdoor'
IS a direct result of the Labor policy and therefore Labor must share the blame equally with the smugglers...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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Jaykaye_09
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #306 - Dec 20th, 2010 at 1:16pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 1:05pm:
And the NUMBER of people trying to reach Australia via the 'backdoor'
IS a direct result of the Labor policy and therefore Labor must share the blame equally with the smugglers...


Could you not also argue then, that the policies which led to both the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan - which have had a SIGNIFICANT impact on the heightened number of people fleeing those countries - can also be partially blamed...

I get the arguments here, they're pretty simple i.e. the more boats that arrive, the more likely there is to be a serious accident.

However, the conclusions that some have been able to draw concerning a direct, and almost singular reason behind this tragedy really does boggle the mind.
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If I don't respond to a post directed toward me, it's probably because I've gone offline, not because I'm rude.&&&&Or maybe I don't like you. In which case, sod off. Ta.
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #307 - Dec 20th, 2010 at 1:25pm
 
Sure you could, providing all or even most of the boat people were from one of those two countries.

The fairly relaxed immigration policy has more to do with the number of boats than the wars in those countries though, given that the fighting in those places has been going on for far longer than the spike in boat numbers..
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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Jaykaye_09
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #308 - Dec 20th, 2010 at 1:33pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 1:25pm:
Sure you could, providing all or even most of the boat people were from one of those two countries.

The fairly relaxed immigration policy has more to do with the number of boats than the wars in those countries though, given that the fighting in those places has been going on for far longer than the spike in boat numbers..


Seems the boat had Iraqi's, Kurds and Iranians on board.

I would question your second point too, if only due to similar rises being seen in other countries since the respective conflicts began.
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If I don't respond to a post directed toward me, it's probably because I've gone offline, not because I'm rude.&&&&Or maybe I don't like you. In which case, sod off. Ta.
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #309 - Dec 20th, 2010 at 2:04pm
 
Yes, there've been more 'applications' for refugee status since the conflicts began....but how many have been 'sneak over the border illegally' and how many 'through channels'???

Because THAT is what the boats are..."sneak in under the radar", not legitimate requests...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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chicken_lipsforme
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #310 - Dec 20th, 2010 at 2:06pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 12:48pm:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 12:45pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 12:41pm:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 11:24am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 18th, 2010 at 5:40pm:
codswal wrote on Dec 18th, 2010 at 4:32pm:
As for your own "reasoning", you say he is "telling it how he sees it". Well, that counts for zero. Anyone capable of putting a couple sentences together can "tell it how he sees it".  If a 4 year old "tells us how he/she sees it" then that seems good enough for you, which, by default, utterly destroys any supposed superiority in Bolt's arguments.

time.

---------------------


hes a journalist he is paid as a journalist... if thats your take on it.. then that goes for every journalist that ever was..

get over yourself... do as I do.. dont read the ones you dont like...

he will never say what you lwant to hear...

that everything this govt does and has done is fantastic.isgreat. is showing great leadership..blah.blah.blah.

infact right now you will fin d it bloody hard to find one journalist on your side of the fence saying anything worthy of LABOR....so you will find it hard to find someone to read..


The very fact that Bolt is masquerading as a journalist is the problem. Bolt is subverting the chain of cause and effect to suit his political ends. To claim Gillard "has blood on her hands" is to make Gillard responsible for the weather, rough seas, rocks, crappy boats, the people on the aforementioned boat, and the smugglers. Where is the responsibility of those on the boat? and the smugglers? How can anyone be blamed for bad weather? Miss Anne Dryst couldn't answer this question and departed from this discussion once she had to contemplate using logic, rather than an aversion for someone (gillard).
Logic 101: having an aversion for something does not make that something responsible for the act in question. Are you intellectually honest? Or are you, like many others here, passing off your hatred for Gillard as if that amounts to any to anything when one epistemologically examines the chain of cause and effect?
If Gillard is responsible for this incident, then, using Bolt's own unique brand of "logic", Bolt is responsible for the deaths of innocents in the Iraq war.



AB warned the government some years ago regarding the potential ramifications of their reckless policy fiddling.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with Gillard being responsible for bad weather or bad boats etc, but it's EVERYTHING to do with the governments removal of a working policy only then to install a failed one.
And then stupidly wait until the problem is well out of hand before recognising that the problem has gotten away from them.
As if their weakening of the policy was ever going to have a different result.
So yes, this government because of it's inept incompetent handling of our border protection system now does have 'blood on it's hands'.
Because that boat would not have been there had the former governments border protection laws still been in force.



Why do you dissolve the responsibility of those on the boat and the smugglers?
Why doesn't Bolt use this particular brand of "reasoning" - blaming people 100 times removed from the act in question - for Liberal politicians and himself?
If Bolt cannot consistently apply this "logic" for all arguments that assign blame, then he has no credibility.
The argument of those claiming Gillard has "blood on her hands" is simple: Their hatred of Gillard is primary, only then do they look around and search for evidence to assign her with blame.


Because the smugglers will continue to choose Australia as their destination of choice whilst we have a weak government in.



So they're effectively not responsible for what they do?
Wrong, they must take responsibility for their actions.


I couldn't agree more.
And Abbott calling for 10 year mandatory detention for the smugglers is something I have been calling for many years now.
This will certainly be one way the smugglers will take responsibilty for their actions and make them think twice about smuggling people into this country.
But make no mistake, the government by their incompetent actions have given the criminal gangs the green light to 'come on down'.
If the previous governments policy was not diluted, this tragedy would have been avoided.
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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.
 
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Jaykaye_09
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #311 - Dec 20th, 2010 at 2:10pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 2:04pm:
Yes, there've been more 'applications' for refugee status since the conflicts began....but how many have been 'sneak over the border illegally' and how many 'through channels'???

Because THAT is what the boats are..."sneak in under the radar", not legitimate requests...


There are no legitimate channels if one wants to leave Iraq and/or Afghanistan.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no supporter of the ALP approach to supposedly illegal immigration, I just think the fervor with which some are approaching this, and the manner in which they are necessarily attributing blame, is a tad off balance.

Statements such as those above i.e. "If the previous governments policy was not diluted, this tragedy would have been avoided", really are borderline ridiculous and do no justice to the actual complexities of the issue.
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If I don't respond to a post directed toward me, it's probably because I've gone offline, not because I'm rude.&&&&Or maybe I don't like you. In which case, sod off. Ta.
 
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #312 - Dec 20th, 2010 at 2:15pm
 
Quote:
Because the smugglers will continue to choose Australia as their destination of choice whilst we have a weak government in.

If your assertion were correct why do Europe and the USA and Canada have so many more refugees than Australia? under your logic the whole western world is governed by weak government?

If Australia was invaded, the whingers would be the first ones out of here trying to get to a "safe" country, and I'd bet they wouldn't stop at PNG, that being our closest neighbour.
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #313 - Dec 20th, 2010 at 2:15pm
 
i'ld doubt a 10 year mandatory sentence would stop crims.

fly the illegal boat people back to where they came back the same day they arrive.
that'ld stop the customers coming to the crims.

make landing illegally in auss a bad thing.
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Modern Classic Right Wing
 
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Re: Calls for Bolt to resign re call for PM to resign
Reply #314 - Dec 20th, 2010 at 2:18pm
 
skippy. wrote on Dec 20th, 2010 at 2:15pm:
[quote]under your logic the whole western world is governed by weak government?


You realise what you've just done, don't you?
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If I don't respond to a post directed toward me, it's probably because I've gone offline, not because I'm rude.&&&&Or maybe I don't like you. In which case, sod off. Ta.
 
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