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Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools. (Read 13125 times)
imcrookonit
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Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Jan 7th, 2011 at 6:04am
 
Why should the public fund private schools?


State schools must be the government's priority in education.

I ATTENDED a private school for a decade of my childhood. The school ran to type, boasting grand buildings, landscaped gardens, swimming pools and rowing sheds. Its ethos was filched from archaic British independent schools such as Eton or Harrow and it clearly sought to emulate an old-world class system. The school was politically conservative (most staff were vocal supporters of the Liberal Party) and it featured an "old grammarians" network - future contacts for business and politics.

I imagine the school must have improved in the 25 years since I left it, because the institution I attended was stifling and hidebound, presided over by dull teachers who enjoyed bullying their students. My experiences made me an enthusiastic supporter of the state school system.


Supporters of private school education argue that it inculcates students with values. But even cursory research into the antics of some private school students will uncover incidents involving drugs, shoplifting, bullying and violence that make the values argument look shaky. Teenagers will make mistakes and mischief no matter where they go to school.

But since we're talking values, how can our top private schools justify yearly fees of between $16,000 and $27,000 for year 12 tuition? And how do they rationalise raising those fees by 5 to 10 per cent every year?

Private school education in Australia poses questions that go directly to the matter of values. The most important of these has been debated for years: should elite private schools receive taxpayer funding?

Many state school administrations struggle to find the money to undertake simple repairs to their portable classrooms.

The contrast between the two school types is often dramatic. In New South Wales, the Federation of Parents and Citizens found that some state schools are so under-resourced that parents have had to purchase school library books and in some cases even the toilet paper. By contrast, private schools have access to enormous resources. Should the government's job be to perpetuate this disparity?

In 2001, the Howard government set up the school funding model that is still in place. When it was introduced, the socio-economic status (SES) funding formula provided an immediate bonus of $50 million to 67 of the country's wealthiest schools.

SES funding was meant to make elite schools more affordable for ordinary families. But it didn't prevent schools increasing their fees. Just how is a school that charges $27,000 for year 12 tuition ever going to be accessible to ordinary families?

A University of Sydney research paper by Dr Jim McMorrow reveals that by 2012-13, private schools will have received $47 billion in funding, compared with $35 billion for public schools.

It is hard to justify government funding of private schools, particularly when two-thirds of Australians are educated at state schools. The schools that receive government funding should be those that educate the majority of our population.

We were among the first countries to initiate free and compulsory education, but we appear to have lost our way. Former High Court judge Michael Kirby is a proud advocate of state schools. In a 2009 speech, "In Praise of Public Education", Kirby summed up the problem with characteristic precision: "It constantly amazes me that leaders of government in Australia, who themselves have benefited from public education, go along with inequity in the distribution of public funds for schooling."

Free education of an excellent standard should be a reasonable expectation in our democracy. A civilised society is only possible if you have a well-educated public, and woe betide any culture in which excellence in education can only be had if you pay.

It is no secret that most of our nation's disadvantaged students attend state schools. Their disadvantage is intensified when public money goes to private schools. The best pathway out of poverty is education. Intergenerational poverty can only be combatted if we channel all resources into public education.

Private school websites boast that the secondary education they can provide will lead their students to prosperity. The argument isn't without merit: the advantages our children gain in later life often come from those they receive early on. Consequently, state school funding must be the government's priority. Excellence in education should be available to all, not just the prerogative of the rich.

We expect our government to allocate serious taxpayer dollars to fund vital services such as police or ambulances. But how would we feel if wealthy families could access Commonwealth money to help fund their private security service or their home ambulance service? Isn't the Commonwealth's funding of private schools the same thing?

Last year, the federal government appointed a panel to review school funding. Led by businessman David Gonski, the panel will be taking submissions until March. A preliminary issues paper is due in the latter half of this year.

It's a safe bet that the discussion generated by this paper will be lively and acrimonious.
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salad in
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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #1 - Jan 7th, 2011 at 6:59am
 
Quote:
1963 Election

In 1963 PM Robert Menzies took the step of providing State Aid (government funding) for independent schools. In Goulburn NSW in 1962 Catholic schools had shut their doors for a week - and dumped their kids on the State school system - to protest against a lack of government funding (State Aid as it was called). While Menzies funded independent schools (and won over many Catholic voters) Labor wrestled with the issue and resisted State Aid. This is the story of that strike and the 1963 election.

http://www.abc.net.au/gnt/history/Transcripts/s1213157.htm


It's simple: the state school system wouldn't be able to cope. If governments were forced to build schools to provide education it might lead to a cessation of our foreign aid. OUR money would be spent on OUR needs and not on things like propping up Indonesia. If that happened we'd have the UN and AI wailing about how uncaring we are with our neighbours. Want the UN and outfits like AI and Tim Costello crying and lashing us? No. I don't either.

However, if we do commit to spending the right amount of money on education that should not happen immediately. First, a study tour by the relevant minister to Paris, Rome, London, New York, and Vienna must be undertaken to find out how they do it. Of course the minister's spouse/partner must go along for the ride. The minister MUST stay at 5 star digs at all times.
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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #2 - Jan 7th, 2011 at 7:18am
 
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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #3 - Jan 7th, 2011 at 7:23am
 
As a general principle I am against public funding for private schools, and have really tried to support the state system. Eventually however, after two years at a bloody awful state high school, we did send one of our children to a private school.  This was not a fancy or hugely expensive school,  just a local catholic boys high, however the quality of the teachers ,the education and discipline provided was vastly superior. That things are this way is wrong, that we had to send our son to a private school to ensure he got a decent education still annoys me, but that is, unfortunately, the way things are at the moment.

There are arguments for public funding  of private schools such as private parents pay taxes and are entitled to have a share of the education dollar, and that not funding these schools will only ensure that they become even more elitist and exclusive for those that can afford them, however I don't believe that these outweigh the benefits of properly funding state education.  

More money is itself not the whole answer. The entire system needs to be overhauled, all the trendy touchy feely PC crap eliminated, incompetent teachers removed and proper discipline restored. Only then will we have an education system like the one that once saw Australia a world leader in education.

Addendum: I have followed gizmos link and have noticed that there is no attribution on the OP.
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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #4 - Jan 7th, 2011 at 8:42am
 
Belgarion wrote on Jan 7th, 2011 at 7:23am:
As a general principle I am against public funding for private schools, and have really tried to support the state system. Eventually however, after two years at a bloody awful state high school, we did send one of our children to a private school.  This was not a fancy or hugely expensive school,  just a local catholic boys high, however the quality of the teachers ,the education and discipline provided was vastly superior. That things are this way is wrong, that we had to send our son to a private school to ensure he got a decent education still annoys me, but that is, unfortunately, the way things are at the moment.

There are arguments for public funding  of private schools such as private parents pay taxes and are entitled to have a share of the education dollar, and that not funding these schools will only ensure that they become even more elitist and exclusive for those that can afford them, however I don't believe that these outweigh the benefits of properly funding state education.  

More money is itself not the whole answer. The entire system needs to be overhauled, all the trendy touchy feely PC crap eliminated, incompetent teachers removed and proper discipline restored. Only then will we have an education system like the one that once saw Australia a world leader in education.

Addendum: I have followed gizmos link and have noticed that there is no attribution on the OP.


Perhaps there are many that believe that the public system cant be saved by more money? it is already the case that a number of low-fee private schools already provide a vastly superior experience for less money per student than public schools. Is it perhaps the case that the public system is intrinsically flawed so much that money ISNT the problem? You talk about discipline, yet you know that private schools are free to develope discipline systems that public schools cannot. Private schools can develop curriculums with a focus on skills and subjetcs that students need in the real world while public schools are infested with PC crap. The very left-wing education unions dominates the teaching profession int he public sector and dramatically limits its teachers abilities to actually teach geunine skills while the eductaion department seems intent on destroying the charter it has for educating our kids.

Im a believer in private education  - not from ideology as much as from seeing the obvious need to give our kids a better education.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #5 - Jan 7th, 2011 at 8:49am
 
Quote:
A University of Sydney research paper by Dr Jim McMorrow reveals that by 2012-13, private schools will have received $47 billion in funding, compared with $35 billion for public schools.



A convenient yet dishonest figure since that is only the federal govts figure and does not include state govt figures which favour public schools 90/10. the TOTAL ACTUAL figure has public schools funded at around $10,000 per student and private at $7,000.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #6 - Jan 7th, 2011 at 10:32am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 7th, 2011 at 8:42am:
Belgarion wrote on Jan 7th, 2011 at 7:23am:
As a general principle I am against public funding for private schools, and have really tried to support the state system. Eventually however, after two years at a bloody awful state high school, we did send one of our children to a private school.  This was not a fancy or hugely expensive school,  just a local catholic boys high, however the quality of the teachers ,the education and discipline provided was vastly superior. That things are this way is wrong, that we had to send our son to a private school to ensure he got a decent education still annoys me, but that is, unfortunately, the way things are at the moment.

There are arguments for public funding  of private schools such as private parents pay taxes and are entitled to have a share of the education dollar, and that not funding these schools will only ensure that they become even more elitist and exclusive for those that can afford them, however I don't believe that these outweigh the benefits of properly funding state education. 

More money is itself not the whole answer. The entire system needs to be overhauled, all the trendy touchy feely PC crap eliminated, incompetent teachers removed and proper discipline restored. Only then will we have an education system like the one that once saw Australia a world leader in education.

Addendum: I have followed gizmos link and have noticed that there is no attribution on the OP.


Perhaps there are many that believe that the public system cant be saved by more money? it is already the case that a number of low-fee private schools already provide a vastly superior experience for less money per student than public schools. Is it perhaps the case that the public system is intrinsically flawed so much that money ISNT the problem? You talk about discipline, yet you know that private schools are free to develope discipline systems that public schools cannot. Private schools can develop curriculums with a focus on skills and subjetcs that students need in the real world while public schools are infested with PC crap. The very left-wing education unions dominates the teaching profession int he public sector and dramatically limits its teachers abilities to actually teach geunine skills while the eductaion department seems intent on destroying the charter it has for educating our kids.

Im a believer in private education  - not from ideology as much as from seeing the obvious need to give our kids a better education.


I'm not !!

We don't need anymore lawyers and sports morons with single digit IQ's. That seems to be what comes out of these private schools. We need innovative people with technical abilities who can create and manufacture things. You won't get that from elitist private schools run by Luddite Liberal supporters with no vision Sad
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #7 - Jan 7th, 2011 at 11:30am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 7th, 2011 at 10:32am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 7th, 2011 at 8:42am:
Belgarion wrote on Jan 7th, 2011 at 7:23am:
As a general principle I am against public funding for private schools, and have really tried to support the state system. Eventually however, after two years at a bloody awful state high school, we did send one of our children to a private school.  This was not a fancy or hugely expensive school,  just a local catholic boys high, however the quality of the teachers ,the education and discipline provided was vastly superior. That things are this way is wrong, that we had to send our son to a private school to ensure he got a decent education still annoys me, but that is, unfortunately, the way things are at the moment.

There are arguments for public funding  of private schools such as private parents pay taxes and are entitled to have a share of the education dollar, and that not funding these schools will only ensure that they become even more elitist and exclusive for those that can afford them, however I don't believe that these outweigh the benefits of properly funding state education.  

More money is itself not the whole answer. The entire system needs to be overhauled, all the trendy touchy feely PC crap eliminated, incompetent teachers removed and proper discipline restored. Only then will we have an education system like the one that once saw Australia a world leader in education.

Addendum: I have followed gizmos link and have noticed that there is no attribution on the OP.


Perhaps there are many that believe that the public system cant be saved by more money? it is already the case that a number of low-fee private schools already provide a vastly superior experience for less money per student than public schools. Is it perhaps the case that the public system is intrinsically flawed so much that money ISNT the problem? You talk about discipline, yet you know that private schools are free to develope discipline systems that public schools cannot. Private schools can develop curriculums with a focus on skills and subjetcs that students need in the real world while public schools are infested with PC crap. The very left-wing education unions dominates the teaching profession int he public sector and dramatically limits its teachers abilities to actually teach geunine skills while the eductaion department seems intent on destroying the charter it has for educating our kids.

Im a believer in private education  - not from ideology as much as from seeing the obvious need to give our kids a better education.


I'm not !!

We don't need anymore lawyers and sports morons with single digit IQ's. That seems to be what comes out of these private schools. We need innovative people with technical abilities who can create and manufacture things. You won't get that from elitist private schools run by Luddite Liberal supporters with no vision Sad


ENVY AND JEALOUSY rule your perceptions. it remains a indisputable FACT that private school students have a higher rate of tertiary education and generally superior life outcomes including better employment, more wealth and in fact longer lives. Like it or not, it remains true.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #8 - Jan 7th, 2011 at 11:58am
 
Quote:
We expect our government to allocate serious taxpayer dollars to fund vital services such as police or ambulances.

But how would we feel if wealthy families could access Commonwealth money to help fund their private security service or their home ambulance service?


Isn't the Commonwealth's funding of private schools the same thing?



http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/why-should-the-public-fund-...






My LONG-HELD view





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private school threads
Reply #9 - Jan 7th, 2011 at 12:54pm
 
Quote:
State schools must be the government's priority in education.


Shouldn't the quality of education for our children be a priority? Followed by the cost to the taxpayer?

If you removed fuunding to private schools, many of those students would have to go to lower quality state schools, and the taxpayer would have to carry the full burden of all those extra students.

You need to consider the economic reality you are faced with rather than some silly ideological preference for state schools.

Public vs private education: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1172911103

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1287188096

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1284255594

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1282100721

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1280901113

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1279677842

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1172911103

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1228987231

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1294344299

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1223424129
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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #10 - Jan 7th, 2011 at 12:58pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 7th, 2011 at 11:30am:
ENVY AND JEALOUSY rule your perceptions. it remains a indisputable FACT that private school students have a higher rate of tertiary education and generally superior life outcomes including better employment, more wealth and in fact longer lives. Like it or not, it remains true.


Not from the public high school I came from. It has such a good reputation that the chinese can't wait to buy million dollar homes in the same area just to send their kids to it. But of course the chinese will do well because they don't try and rip people off at the retail end. They believe the value in engineering, science, manufacturing and value adding whereas lazy aussies like you and your good libbo mate Gerry GE just want  to hatch up new ways of robbing people with minimal effort Sad That's all your private schools are good for Sad Word smiths and useless sports idiots kicking a piece of leather around a paddock Sad
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #11 - Jan 7th, 2011 at 1:02pm
 
Why should they?

Because private schools also provide an education to our children.

Why should my taxes go to funding other kids to go to school and yet mine will get none because I choose to pay for them?

Everyone should be funded if we do it that way and the private schools get additional funding through fees.

If you are going to have a two tier system with a fee paying and a free - there has to be an advantage. That's how the world works.
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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #12 - Jan 7th, 2011 at 1:06pm
 
If we withdrew public funding from private schools, how would the public system cope with the influx of ex-private school students?

Likewise with private health.

Roll Eyes Part of a free and democratic society means having choices, the choice between affordable private health and education and public.

Sorry, but your Orwellian concept just doesn't make sense.



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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #13 - Jan 7th, 2011 at 1:14pm
 
buzzanddidj wrote on Jan 7th, 2011 at 11:58am:
Quote:
We expect our government to allocate serious taxpayer dollars to fund vital services such as police or ambulances.

But how would we feel if wealthy families could access Commonwealth money to help fund their private security service or their home ambulance service?


Isn't the Commonwealth's funding of private schools the same thing?



http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/why-should-the-public-fund-...






My LONG-HELD view








Reasonably comfortable in your armchair on the sidelines is it?

No children and pay in no tax.

Hence it pretty much has nothing to do with you.

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #14 - Jan 7th, 2011 at 1:46pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 7th, 2011 at 1:02pm:
Why should they?

Because private schools also provide an education to our children.

Why should my taxes go to funding other kids to go to school and yet mine will get none because I choose to pay for them?

Everyone should be funded if we do it that way and the private schools get additional funding through fees.

If you are going to have a two tier system with a fee paying and a free - there has to be an advantage. That's how the world works.


That's your choice. Nobody forced you to pay for them. Send them to a public school and you won't have to pay more for them.

Most of these private schools are run by corrupt church institutions looking to make a quick buck from gullible tax payers Sad Why should tax payers pay for these religious schools to spread their propaganda and brainwash students ?
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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