Australian Politics Forum - Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.

longweekend58

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Re: private school threads
Reply #15 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 1:55pm

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 12:54pm:

Quote:

State schools must be the government's priority in education.

ABSOLUTELY! the notion of putting the children's education FIRST seems to slip the minds of the ideologically bound. and thats even before you consider the costs of changing our priorities and if it wil even work!

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longweekend58

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #16 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 1:56pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 12:58pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 11:30am:

ENVY AND JEALOUSY rule your perceptions. it remains a indisputable FACT that private school students have a higher rate of tertiary education and generally superior life outcomes including better employment, more wealth and in fact longer lives. Like it or not, it remains true.

Not from the public high school I came from. It has such a good reputation that the chinese can't wait to buy million dollar homes in the same area just to send their kids to it. But of course the chinese will do well because they don't try and rip people off at the retail end. They believe the value in engineering, science, manufacturing and value adding whereas lazy aussies like you and your good libbo mate Gerry GE just want to hatch up new ways of robbing people with minimal effort Sad

That's all your private schools are good for Sad

Word smiths and useless sports idiots kicking a piece of leather around a paddock Sad

And what public high school was that? or do we add this new bit of fantasy to the long list of Walter Mitty-esque claims you have made?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #17 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 1:59pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 1:46pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 1:02pm:

Why should they?

Because private schools also provide an education to our children.

Why should my taxes go to funding other kids to go to school and yet mine will get none because I choose to pay for them?

Everyone should be funded if we do it that way and the private schools get additional funding through fees.

If you are going to have a two tier system with a fee paying and a free - there has to be an advantage. That's how the world works.

That's your choice. Nobody forced you to pay for them. Send them to a public school and you won't have to pay more for them.

Most of these private schools are run by corrupt church institutions looking to make a quick buck from gullible tax payers Sad

Why should tax payers pay for these religious schools to spread their propaganda and brainwash students ?

Why is it that EVERY TIME you post you demonstrate conclusively that you know next to nothing about the topics you post on? The academic outcomes of Private schools crap all over those from Public schools. It isnt even in debate!

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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mellie

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #18 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:02pm

I agree with you on the matter of funding review, both private and public school funding for that matter, given some of your more 'elite' schools in 'nicer' areas both public and private are receiving exuberant amounts of funding in comparison to other government and non-government schools.

Though to stop funding to all private schools is just outrageous, what about parents who work their guts out and pay their taxes to afford their children a private school education, don't you think they deserve to see a little of what they pay in the way of tax find it's way to their own children's schools?

Look, both my children have enjoyed both public and private schools, so I am by no means biased here, and my own mother worked her fingers to the bone to send me to private schools as a child also, and on a single parent salary I will just add. No assistance back then...not like there is now for single working mums wanting to send their kids to private schools.

Why shouldn't all schools, who's students parents pay their taxes be entitled to some public funding, (these kids parents forming a percentage of the public too after all)..something in return for trying to give their kids the best possible start in life.

Private or public, either way it goes, there's no such thing as a free education/lunch these days, and suggesting we cut funding to private schools will only place increasing pressure on government schools.

You like many people are of the misconception that kids who attend private schools are privileged snotty brats....you couldn't be more wrong when it comes to your average local private school.

Many family's are living below the bread line just to afford their kids school fees, and this is/was a sacrifice they chose to make and should not be penalised for.

What do you think it costs the government to educate one public student for a year at the tax payers expense?

Now if these kids are going to private schools, then why shouldn't their own schools receive at least part of what they would have received had they gone to a public school?

There needs to be an incentive/compromise to encourage family's in a position to send their kids to private schools to do so ... or else the public system will buckle under the strain of increasing student numbers and staff shortages.

Tongue

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longweekend58

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #19 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:11pm

This whole debate is nothing more than another version of the 'should the rich be allowed govt funding' argument. It gets old listening to the same class-based, envy-driven nonsense that espouses ideology over practicallity and outcomes.

FACT: private schools have vastly better outcomes with 35% LESS govt funding per student than public schools. Live with it but dont deny it

FACT: private schools charge fees to improve their level of service. No one is forced to go to one. GET OVER IT.

FACT: most private schools are Catholic or low fee private schools with fees of $2000pa or less.

Education is one of the fundamental rights of children and the rights of all children and the parents to aspire to the very best level they can afford is one we shoudl support and encourage. The more that attend private schools, the more money is available for the public sector. This is good for EVERYONE.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #20 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:14pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 1:56pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 12:58pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 11:30am:

ENVY AND JEALOUSY rule your perceptions. it remains a indisputable FACT that private school students have a higher rate of tertiary education and generally superior life outcomes including better employment, more wealth and in fact longer lives. Like it or not, it remains true.

Not from the public high school I came from. It has such a good reputation that the chinese can't wait to buy million dollar homes in the same area just to send their kids to it. But of course the chinese will do well because they don't try and rip people off at the retail end. They believe the value in engineering, science, manufacturing and value adding whereas lazy aussies like you and your good libbo mate Gerry GE just want to hatch up new ways of robbing people with minimal effort Sad

That's all your private schools are good for Sad

Word smiths and useless sports idiots kicking a piece of leather around a paddock Sad

And what public high school was that? or do we add this new bit of fantasy to the long list of Walter Mitty-esque claims you have made?

You are ignoramus badweekend. I know plenty of dropouts from private schools. Money doesn't buy class or brains. You should know that Wink

Most of those private schools have their head office located in the Vatican. Why do you think they were the first to jump on Kevin Dudds BER scam ? They had their accountants working over time to get a grab of the money that was on offering Wink

Those religious institutions are quicker than a rat up a drain pipe when it comes to handouts Wink

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #21 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:17pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:11pm:

This whole debate is nothing more than another version of the 'should the rich be allowed govt funding' argument. It gets old listening to the same class-based, envy-driven nonsense that espouses ideology over practicallity and outcomes.

FACT: private schools have vastly better outcomes with 35% LESS govt funding per student than public schools. Live with it but dont deny it

FACT: private schools charge fees to improve their level of service. No one is forced to go to one. GET OVER IT.

FACT: most private schools are Catholic or low fee private schools with fees of $2000pa or less.

Education is one of the fundamental rights of children and the rights of all children and the parents to aspire to the very best level they can afford is one we shoudl support and encourage. The more that attend private schools, the more money is available for the public sector. This is good for EVERYONE.

Lets see how good the private schools are without the Corporate welfare from the Government ??

Why should tax payers pay corrupt religious institutions to provide education ? That is totally absurd !!

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #22 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:18pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:11pm:

This whole debate is nothing more than another version of the 'should the rich be allowed govt funding' argument. It gets old listening to the same class-based, envy-driven nonsense that espouses ideology over practicallity and outcomes.

FACT: private schools have vastly better outcomes with 35% LESS govt funding per student than public schools. Live with it but dont deny it

FACT: private schools charge fees to improve their level of service. No one is forced to go to one. GET OVER IT.

FACT: most private schools are Catholic or low fee private schools with fees of $2000pa or less.

Education is one of the fundamental rights of children and the rights of all children and the parents to aspire to the very best level they can afford is one we shoudl support and encourage. The more that attend private schools, the more money is available for the public sector. This is good for EVERYONE.

The thing is though is that its a broad brush for people to use on the class front.

I am a working class kid myself but hold the view that private schools should also receive funding.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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mellie

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #23 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:19pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 1:59pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 1:46pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 1:02pm:

Why should they?

Because private schools also provide an education to our children.

Why should my taxes go to funding other kids to go to school and yet mine will get none because I choose to pay for them?

Everyone should be funded if we do it that way and the private schools get additional funding through fees.

If you are going to have a two tier system with a fee paying and a free - there has to be an advantage. That's how the world works.

That's your choice. Nobody forced you to pay for them. Send them to a public school and you won't have to pay more for them.

Most of these private schools are run by corrupt church institutions looking to make a quick buck from gullible tax payers Sad

Why should tax payers pay for these religious schools to spread their propaganda and brainwash students ?

Why is it that EVERY TIME you post you demonstrate conclusively that you know next to nothing about the topics you post on? The academic outcomes of Private schools crap all over those from Public schools. It isnt even in debate!

I am not a religious person, but can only speak highly of my catholic schooling.

Does it look like they converted or brainwashed me? Grin

*shakes head*

I have very fond memories of my Catholic primary school especially the nuns, ... they were all gorgeous and really enjoyed being around kids...especially the nuns I think because we essentially became their children.

There were quite a few poor kids at my private school, two families in particular from memory, both of which had in excess of 8 kids from the same family.

They were by no means well-off, and my mother and grandmother used to pack extra sandwiches in my lunch-box for this one boy in my class for an entire year, because he never brought lunch to school and I was feeding him mine.

Undecided

I recall his shoes being warn down on one side of his heels on the very first day in Kindergarten and his school tie being ultra faded also, they were obviously hand me downs from one of several older siblings.

Was a huge family, and the kids all looked exactly the same. All boys! Every last one of them. Like children of the corn, only much much skinnier.

Undecided

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #24 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:23pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:18pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:11pm:

This whole debate is nothing more than another version of the 'should the rich be allowed govt funding' argument. It gets old listening to the same class-based, envy-driven nonsense that espouses ideology over practicallity and outcomes.

FACT: private schools have vastly better outcomes with 35% LESS govt funding per student than public schools. Live with it but dont deny it

FACT: private schools charge fees to improve their level of service. No one is forced to go to one. GET OVER IT.

FACT: most private schools are Catholic or low fee private schools with fees of $2000pa or less.

Education is one of the fundamental rights of children and the rights of all children and the parents to aspire to the very best level they can afford is one we shoudl support and encourage. The more that attend private schools, the more money is available for the public sector. This is good for EVERYONE.

The thing is though is that its a broad brush for people to use on the class front.

I am a working class kid myself but hold the view that private schools should also receive funding.

All education providers should operate on equal footing. Good education is a right not a privilege and every student should have the same opportunities. Education is an investment for the future of the country. It should not be seen as an opportunity for some corrupt religious institutions to make a quick buck out of the tax payer Sad

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #25 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:23pm

Lastnail you are correct that money doesn't buy brains.

Some of the dumbest kids in my school were from absurdly wealthy families. They got into uni by way of flashing cash around.

You could argue they never really bothered at school because they didn't need to.
One of them I know now has a job with the McLaren racing team and travels the world - yep I am sure that was based on his intellect eh? LOL

But in reality mate we are talking about averages.

There are dumb rich kids at private school, there are exceptionally bright public kids from shithouse backgrounds.

But on the whole private education craps all over public education.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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mellie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8142 Sydney Gender:	Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools. Reply #26 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:35pm Agreed, just another misguided rob the rich to feed the poor thread....coming from no other than a union commie who's probably never even had school-aged kids themselves. I'm out of here... Reason, POINTLESS!
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Sir lastnail

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #27 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:36pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:23pm:

Lastnail you are correct that money doesn't buy brains.

Some of the dumbest kids in my school were from absurdly wealthy families. They got into uni by way of flashing cash around.

You could argue they never really bothered at school because they didn't need to.
One of them I know now has a job with the McLaren racing team and travels the world - yep I am sure that was based on his intellect eh? LOL

But in reality mate we are talking about averages.

There are dumb rich kids at private school, there are exceptionally bright public kids from shithouse backgrounds.

But on the whole private education craps all over public education.

It doesn't matter. Allowing religious institutions to run schools is privatization of the education system by stealth Sad

It should be discouraged or the funding should be cut !! Let them pray for the money they need. Let them prove the power of prayer Wink

LOL

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #28 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:43pm

Belgarion wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 7:23am:

As a general principle I am against public funding for private schools, and have really tried to support the state system. Eventually however, after two years at a bloody awful state high school, we did send one of our children to a private school. This was not a fancy or hugely expensive school, just a local catholic boys high, however the quality of the teachers ,the education and discipline provided was vastly superior. That things are this way is wrong, that we had to send our son to a private school to ensure he got a decent education still annoys me, but that is, unfortunately, the way things are at the moment.

There are arguments for public funding of private schools such as private parents pay taxes and are entitled to have a share of the education dollar, and that not funding these schools will only ensure that they become even more elitist and exclusive for those that can afford them, however I don't believe that these outweigh the benefits of properly funding state education.

More money is itself not the whole answer. The entire system needs to be overhauled, all the trendy touchy feely PC crap eliminated, incompetent teachers removed and proper discipline restored. Only then will we have an education system like the one that once saw Australia a world leader in education.

Addendum: I have followed gizmos link and have noticed that there is no attribution on the OP.

I'm against public moneys funding private schools too...
I mean, isn't that the whole point to the different classifications, PUBLIC(funded) Schools as opposed to PRIVATE(funded) Schools???
If they're government funded, why are they called 'Private'??

Oh and I only included the link to show that imcrookonit didn't actually write it him/herself..

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gizmo_2655

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Re: private school threads
Reply #29 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:51pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 1:55pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 12:54pm:

Quote:

State schools must be the government's priority in education.

ABSOLUTELY! the notion of putting the children's education FIRST seems to slip the minds of the ideologically bound. and thats even before you consider the costs of changing our priorities and if it wil even work!

Ahh longy, you must also consider the idea that if the Governments STOPPED funding 'private' schools, they'd have a whole lot more money to improve equipment, buildings and teacher quality at public schools..

I mean lets face it, the Catholic Church (for example) has more than enough money to independantly fund their schools in Australia, they seem to manage in every other country, as do all the other religious and indpendant schools...

And the fees that private schools charge should be more than enough to pay for quality education for the students

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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