Australian Politics Forum - Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.

longweekend58

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #30 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 3:15pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:43pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 7:23am:

As a general principle I am against public funding for private schools, and have really tried to support the state system. Eventually however, after two years at a bloody awful state high school, we did send one of our children to a private school. This was not a fancy or hugely expensive school, just a local catholic boys high, however the quality of the teachers ,the education and discipline provided was vastly superior. That things are this way is wrong, that we had to send our son to a private school to ensure he got a decent education still annoys me, but that is, unfortunately, the way things are at the moment.

There are arguments for public funding of private schools such as private parents pay taxes and are entitled to have a share of the education dollar, and that not funding these schools will only ensure that they become even more elitist and exclusive for those that can afford them, however I don't believe that these outweigh the benefits of properly funding state education.

More money is itself not the whole answer. The entire system needs to be overhauled, all the trendy touchy feely PC crap eliminated, incompetent teachers removed and proper discipline restored. Only then will we have an education system like the one that once saw Australia a world leader in education.

Addendum: I have followed gizmos link and have noticed that there is no attribution on the OP.

I'm against public moneys funding private schools too...
I mean, isn't that the whole point to the different classifications, PUBLIC(funded) Schools as opposed to PRIVATE(funded) Schools???
If they're government funded, why are they called 'Private'??

Oh and I only included the link to show that imcrookonit didn't actually write it him/herself..

Are you against private/public partnerships as well? What about the notion of Gov delivering its servics by partnering with the private sector? Roads are built by the private sector. Govt Buildings and hospitals are built by the private sector. Arae you suggesting that this should all be ONLY done by govt departments because other wise you are SUBSIDISING private industry with govt money! When private industry (such as schools) do a demonstrably BETTER job than govt in providing a service then govt should bow out and let private industry do the job - better and cheaper.

Perhaps a solution would be to get rid of public operated schools entirely and have the govt pay the $10,000 per student directly to a private education body to proved no-fee education. It would provide a higher standard of education for no extra cost.

Thoughts?

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #31 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 3:33pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 3:15pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:43pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 7:23am:

As a general principle I am against public funding for private schools, and have really tried to support the state system. Eventually however, after two years at a bloody awful state high school, we did send one of our children to a private school. This was not a fancy or hugely expensive school, just a local catholic boys high, however the quality of the teachers ,the education and discipline provided was vastly superior. That things are this way is wrong, that we had to send our son to a private school to ensure he got a decent education still annoys me, but that is, unfortunately, the way things are at the moment.

There are arguments for public funding of private schools such as private parents pay taxes and are entitled to have a share of the education dollar, and that not funding these schools will only ensure that they become even more elitist and exclusive for those that can afford them, however I don't believe that these outweigh the benefits of properly funding state education.

More money is itself not the whole answer. The entire system needs to be overhauled, all the trendy touchy feely PC crap eliminated, incompetent teachers removed and proper discipline restored. Only then will we have an education system like the one that once saw Australia a world leader in education.

Addendum: I have followed gizmos link and have noticed that there is no attribution on the OP.

I'm against public moneys funding private schools too...
I mean, isn't that the whole point to the different classifications, PUBLIC(funded) Schools as opposed to PRIVATE(funded) Schools???
If they're government funded, why are they called 'Private'??

Oh and I only included the link to show that imcrookonit didn't actually write it him/herself..

Are you against private/public partnerships as well? What about the notion of Gov delivering its servics by partnering with the private sector? Roads are built by the private sector. Govt Buildings and hospitals are built by the private sector. Arae you suggesting that this should all be ONLY done by govt departments because other wise you are SUBSIDISING private industry with govt money! When private industry (such as schools) do a demonstrably BETTER job than govt in providing a service then govt should bow out and let private industry do the job - better and cheaper.

Perhaps a solution would be to get rid of public operated schools entirely and have the govt pay the $10,000 per student directly to a private education body to proved no-fee education. It would provide a higher standard of education for no extra cost.

Thoughts?

Yes and look what has happened to privatisation of power ? Bills going up every month Sad

And what of privatization of public transport ?? Come to Melbourne. What a complete disaster Sad

Essential services should never be privatised. That's what we pay Governments to do and they should do it instead of offloading it onto scammers that can't run things properly Sad

And who would be the scammers operating these private schools ? Your good opportunist libbo religious mates Sad

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #32 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 9:05pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 3:15pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 2:43pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 7:23am:

As a general principle I am against public funding for private schools, and have really tried to support the state system. Eventually however, after two years at a bloody awful state high school, we did send one of our children to a private school. This was not a fancy or hugely expensive school, just a local catholic boys high, however the quality of the teachers ,the education and discipline provided was vastly superior. That things are this way is wrong, that we had to send our son to a private school to ensure he got a decent education still annoys me, but that is, unfortunately, the way things are at the moment.

There are arguments for public funding of private schools such as private parents pay taxes and are entitled to have a share of the education dollar, and that not funding these schools will only ensure that they become even more elitist and exclusive for those that can afford them, however I don't believe that these outweigh the benefits of properly funding state education.

More money is itself not the whole answer. The entire system needs to be overhauled, all the trendy touchy feely PC crap eliminated, incompetent teachers removed and proper discipline restored. Only then will we have an education system like the one that once saw Australia a world leader in education.

Addendum: I have followed gizmos link and have noticed that there is no attribution on the OP.

I'm against public moneys funding private schools too...
I mean, isn't that the whole point to the different classifications, PUBLIC(funded) Schools as opposed to PRIVATE(funded) Schools???
If they're government funded, why are they called 'Private'??

Oh and I only included the link to show that imcrookonit didn't actually write it him/herself..

Are you against private/public partnerships as well? What about the notion of Gov delivering its servics by partnering with the private sector? Roads are built by the private sector. Govt Buildings and hospitals are built by the private sector. Arae you suggesting that this should all be ONLY done by govt departments because other wise you are SUBSIDISING private industry with govt money! When private industry (such as schools) do a demonstrably BETTER job than govt in providing a service then govt should bow out and let private industry do the job - better and cheaper.

Perhaps a solution would be to get rid of public operated schools entirely and have the govt pay the $10,000 per student directly to a private education body to proved no-fee education. It would provide a higher standard of education for no extra cost.

Thoughts?

Again, why not stop paying government money to 'private' schools and use the extra money to improve public schools..

Perhaps a solution would be to ONLY fund public schools with public monies and therefore provide a higher standard of education in public schools???

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Prevailing Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7169 Stop Men	Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools. Reply #33 - Jan 8^th, 2011 at 12:53am Its the Governments solemn legal obligation to fund free education for all. Ideally we will do away with the private school system and have all schools funded by the tax payer.
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ohnoitisnt

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #34 - Jan 8^th, 2011 at 5:42am

1: The parents from private schools pay tax so why shouldn't the private school receive a subsidy.

2: Some parents scrape and save to send their children to a private school.

3: The subsidy is less per child than the public sector.

4: It would cost the government more if all students went to public school.

5: Jealousy and envy are soul destroying.

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ohnoitisnt Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 100	Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools. Reply #35 - Jan 8^th, 2011 at 5:45am And who would be the scammers operating these private schools ? Your good opportunist libbo religious mates [/quote] Lastnail check out how many labor, green and independent scammers send their children to private schools.
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Sir lastnail

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #36 - Jan 8^th, 2011 at 12:06pm

ohnoitisnt wrote on Jan 8^th, 2011 at 5:45am:

Lastnail check out how many labor, green and independent scammers send their children to private schools.

I don't care who goes to those schools. Tax payers money should not be given to church institutions to run schools. If the Government can run most schools and then have to pay for private schools then they should be able to run all schools !

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Dnarever

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #37 - Jan 8^th, 2011 at 12:12pm

I have no problem with funding private schools after adequate funds are provided to public schools.

There are different catagories under private schools as well.

Most of the catholic and religious schools are not significantly different from public schools they represent a general cross section of the community and are low funded.

The more exclusive schools to me are a different matter and the facts have shown that we pay more to support some schools boat fleet or swimming pools then we do to support near by struggling public schools in total.

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #38 - Jan 8^th, 2011 at 6:23pm

salad in wrote on Jan 7^th, 2011 at 6:59am:

Quote:

1963 Election

In 1963 PM Robert Menzies took the step of providing State Aid (government funding) for independent schools. In Goulburn NSW in 1962 Catholic schools had shut their doors for a week - and dumped their kids on the State school system - to protest against a lack of government funding (State Aid as it was called). While Menzies funded independent schools (and won over many Catholic voters) Labor wrestled with the issue and resisted State Aid. This is the story of that strike and the 1963 election.

http://www.abc.net.au/gnt/history/Transcripts/s1213157.htm

It's simple: the state school system wouldn't be able to cope.

SILLY old arguement, that one

It could be EQUALLY argued that if the Federal Government didn't

bankroll the so-called "private" system

there would be a lot more funding available to a more

egalitarian, universal education model

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #39 - Jan 8^th, 2011 at 7:29pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Jan 8^th, 2011 at 6:23pm:

It could be EQUALLY argued that if the Federal Government didn't

bankroll the so-called "private" system

there would be a lot more funding available to a more

egalitarian, universal education model

[/size]

SOCIALISM!!!!!!!

No thanks Princess, that's been tried, tested and canned since the 70s

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freediver

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #40 - Jan 8^th, 2011 at 7:30pm

Quote:

It could be EQUALLY argued that if the Federal Government didn't bankroll the so-called "private" system there would be a lot more funding available to a more egalitarian, universal education model

Except that the subsidies to private schools are less than what it costs per student to go through the public system.

I can't get my head around why people opbject to a situation like this where everybody benefits. Is it pure jelousy? Do they simply not understand the implications?

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hawil

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #41 - Jan 8^th, 2011 at 7:34pm

Perhaps a solution would be to get rid of public operated schools entirely and have the govt pay the $10,000 per student directly to a private education body to proved no-fee education. It would provide a higher standard of education for no extra cost.

Thoughts?

Very interesting idea; and maybe it would work.
The private schooling is much more utilised in english speaking countries, and the english speaking citizens are also very reluctant to pay taxes, as are the Greeks and look where it got that couintry.
That the private enterprise can built roads and other infrastructure better is, because they can use the whip a lot harder than it is done in government works.In one case the worker is driven to ever increased effort and the safety is at times sacrificed, in government works some workers think they do not have to do anything except pick up their pay every so often.

Read a joke about two workers in the former USSR, says Boris to Ivan, it really puzzles me that we have been stealing from the government for the last 40 years, and there is still something left to be stolen.

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tonegunman1

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #42 - Jan 8^th, 2011 at 7:35pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 8^th, 2011 at 7:29pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Jan 8^th, 2011 at 6:23pm:

It could be EQUALLY argued that if the Federal Government didn't

bankroll the so-called "private" system

there would be a lot more funding available to a more

egalitarian, universal education model

[/size]

SOCIALISM!!!!!!!

No thanks Princess, that's been tried, tested and canned since the 70s

Is that "let them eat cake"?

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #43 - Jan 8^th, 2011 at 7:37pm

tonegunman1 wrote on Jan 8^th, 2011 at 7:35pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 8^th, 2011 at 7:29pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Jan 8^th, 2011 at 6:23pm:

It could be EQUALLY argued that if the Federal Government didn't

bankroll the so-called "private" system

there would be a lot more funding available to a more

egalitarian, universal education model

[/size]

SOCIALISM!!!!!!!

No thanks Princess, that's been tried, tested and canned since the 70s

Is that "let them eat cake"?

Fraternite and Egalite as they say.
Same old story.

Everyone should pay for someone else.

How about people pay their own way in this world? Novel concept eh?

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freediver

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Re: Why Should The Public Fund Private Schools.
Reply #44 - Jan 8^th, 2011 at 7:49pm

Quote:

Perhaps a solution would be to get rid of public operated schools entirely and have the govt pay the $10,000 per student directly to a private education body to proved no-fee education.

I suspect the standards would drop. At the moment only not-for-profit groups run schools - ie governments and churches, and a few other groups. I would hate for us to end up like the US, with coke vending machines in the classrooms as part of a sponsorship deal.

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