Australian Politics Forum - The inerrant Koran???

Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21914 A cat with a view	Re: The inerrant Koran??? Reply #45 - May 25^th, 2013 at 3:34pm Brian Ross wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 3:17pm: Which is the fundamental doctrine of Islam as well, Soren. There were many specific points in Sorens post..... So, before i reply to that lie, please just clarify the specific point for me, that you are referring to. "Which is", what is ?
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Yadda

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #46 - May 25^th, 2013 at 3:43pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 3:22pm:

Yadda wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 2:53pm:

Quote:

WHat are Islam's fruits?

ISLAM, produces dead bodies.

And that is its sole purpose.

Yet Christians industrialised death, not Muslims, Yadda. Roll Eyes

No.

Not Christians.

But it was the culture that was the child of Christianity, which industrialised death.

And that child was a secular society, not primarily a religious society.

And that consequence ['industrialised death'] came from the nature of man/men, not from the nature of Christianity, as you deceitfully project.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Brian Ross

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #47 - May 25^th, 2013 at 3:57pm

Yadda wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 3:43pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 3:22pm:

Yadda wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 2:53pm:

Quote:

WHat are Islam's fruits?

ISLAM, produces dead bodies.

And that is its sole purpose.

Yet Christians industrialised death, not Muslims, Yadda. Roll Eyes

No.

Not Christians.

The Germans who did so were overwhelmingly Christian, Yadda. Roll Eyes

The Christian Churches stood by and allowed it to occur. They did not criticise it, except in general terms. The Vatican was effectively complicit in their deaths.

Many Christian clergy actively encouraged it, preaching from their pulpits their anti-Semitic hatreds, which in turn taught their disciples that it was OK to exterminate peoples who were different to them.

Why shouldn't Christianity and Christians be condemned for it? Using your logic, guilt by association is OK.

So, as a Christian, do you like being held responsible for 10 million lives fed into the ovens? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

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Yadda

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #48 - May 25^th, 2013 at 4:00pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 3:17pm:

Quote:

The church fought against them but was ultimately lost the battle to its own fundamental doctrine -equality before god.

Which is the fundamental doctrine of Islam as well, Soren. Roll Eyes

That one ?

Well that is a lie.

NO EQUALITY BEFORE GOD, #1

"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110

NO EQUALITY BEFORE GOD, #2

A non-moslem is not permitted to give evidence against a moslem, in a Sharia court.

NO EQUALITY BEFORE GOD, #3

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1352933495/77#77
Quote:

Under Sharia law.....

If a non-moslem kills a moslem, the non-moslem MUST die.

But if a moslem kills a non-moslem, the moslem MUST NOT die.

"....I asked, "What is on this paper?" He replied, "The legal regulations of Diya (Blood-money) and the (ransom for) releasing of the captives, and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for killing a Kafir (disbeliever)." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #009.083.050

"....I asked, "What is written in this paper?" He replied, "(The regulations of) blood-money, the freeing of captives, and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed for killing an infidel." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.283

Why is this so ???

This is because 'disbelievers' have no 'automatic' protection, in ISLAMIC law.

as per....
"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

Because they are, disbelievers, all disbelievers are essentially 'outlaws', and may be 'lawfully' treated with disdain and enmity ['lawful' hated], by all moslems.

NO EQUALITY BEFORE GOD, #4

KILLING OF NON-MUSLIMS IS LEGITIMATE
"...when we say innocent people, we mean moslems."
"....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God."
"...If you are a non-moslem, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a moslem....i must have hatred towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
"...[moslems] allegiance is always with the moslems, so i will never condemn a moslem for what he does."
"...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #49 - May 25^th, 2013 at 4:12pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 3:57pm:

Yadda wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 3:43pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 3:22pm:

Yet Christians industrialised death, not Muslims, Yadda. Roll Eyes

No.

Not Christians.

The Germans who did so were overwhelmingly Christian, Yadda. Roll Eyes

The Christian Churches stood by and allowed it to occur. They did not criticise it, except in general terms. The Vatican was effectively complicit in their deaths.

Many Christian clergy actively encouraged it, preaching from their pulpits their anti-Semitic hatreds, which in turn taught their disciples that it was OK to exterminate peoples who were different to them.

Why shouldn't Christianity and Christians be condemned for it? Using your logic, guilt by association is OK.

So, as a Christian, do you like being held responsible for 10 million lives fed into the ovens? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

THIS IS MY RESPONSE......

Brian Ross wrote on May 18^th, 2013 at 11:09pm:

Tell me, if a Christian "slaughters Jews, Christians," does that mean all Christians should be held responsible for their actions? What about if they, "Assassinating journalists, authors, cartoonists, filmmakers etc?" What about if they are, "trying to criminalise criticism of myself? Trying to destroy democracy?"

Christians have done all those things. They do all these things.

Still playing your deliberately deceitful game i see, Brian_Ross.

You are 1/ trying to project an illegal morality upon Christians, and 2/ presenting a fallacious comparison between the lawful behavior of moslems and what would be the un-lawful behavior of Christians.

Everyone knows [except Brian_Ross], that if Christians ever killed their critics, they would be acting against their religion.

Whereas, whenever moslems kill their critics, and the critics of their 'religion', they are merely imitating the actions of Mohammed, regarded by moslems as the most virtuous moslem.

e.g.

Quote:

Ishaq: 676 “[Context note: Asma bint Marwan was a writer. She wrote critically of Muhammad, telling her tribe to be wary of him, like this:] ‘You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?’ Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, ‘Will no one rid me of this woman?’ Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet’s wishes. That very night he crept into the writer’s home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling baby and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, ‘You have helped Allah and His Apostle.’ Umayr said, ‘She had five sons; should I feel guilty?’ ‘No,’ the Prophet answered. ‘Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.’ ”

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1360381351/0#0

Brian_Ross,

AGAIN....

Quote:

When Christians kill others, they are going against their religion;

Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Matthew 19:17
.....if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

+++

But when moslems fights against disbelievers and kill them, they, are being good moslems

And obeying Allah, in having enmity towards all persons who reject ISLAM.

Why isn't that correct ?;

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

[/quote]

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Baronvonrort

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #50 - May 25^th, 2013 at 4:46pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 3:17pm:

How Islam invented a bright new world

Will you read it though, with an open mind? Roll Eyes

Yes i did and its all bullshit, will you read this with an open mind instead of being blinded by your Islamophila?

Quote:

The exhibition claimed to have shown 1001 Islamic inventions,If the best 20 have proven to be false,what of the other 981?

It omits,distorts and makes blunders concerning the most basic of historical facts to give the reader a false impression.

www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Inventions%3F_How_Islamic_Inventors_Did_Not_Chang...

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Soren

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #51 - May 25^th, 2013 at 8:47pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 3:57pm:

Yadda wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 3:43pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 3:22pm:

Yadda wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 2:53pm:

Quote:

WHat are Islam's fruits?

ISLAM, produces dead bodies.

And that is its sole purpose.

Yet Christians industrialised death, not Muslims, Yadda. Roll Eyes

No.

Not Christians.

The Germans who did so were overwhelmingly Christian, Yadda. Roll Eyes

The Christian Churches stood by and allowed it to occur. They did not criticise it, except in general terms. The Vatican was effectively complicit in their deaths.

Many Christian clergy actively encouraged it, preaching from their pulpits their anti-Semitic hatreds, which in turn taught their disciples that it was OK to exterminate peoples who were different to them.

Why shouldn't Christianity and Christians be condemned for it? Using your logic, guilt by association is OK.

So, as a Christian, do you like being held responsible for 10 million lives fed into the ovens? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

If that was all true - does that excuse Muslims?

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Brian Ross

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #52 - May 26^th, 2013 at 1:15am

Baronvonrort wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 4:46pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 3:17pm:

How Islam invented a bright new world

Will you read it though, with an open mind? Roll Eyes

Yes i did and its all bullshit, will you read this with an open mind instead of being blinded by your Islamophila?

Quote:

The exhibition claimed to have shown 1001 Islamic inventions,If the best 20 have proven to be false,what of the other 981?

It omits,distorts and makes blunders concerning the most basic of historical facts to give the reader a false impression.

www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Inventions%3F_How_Islamic_Inventors_Did_Not_Chang...

That wiki is based upon prejudice and hatred, not reality. It has zero credibility. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #53 - May 26^th, 2013 at 1:19am

Soren wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 8:47pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 3:57pm:

Yadda wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 3:43pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 3:22pm:

Yadda wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 2:53pm:

Quote:

WHat are Islam's fruits?

ISLAM, produces dead bodies.

And that is its sole purpose.

Yet Christians industrialised death, not Muslims, Yadda. Roll Eyes

No.

Not Christians.

The Germans who did so were overwhelmingly Christian, Yadda. Roll Eyes

The Christian Churches stood by and allowed it to occur. They did not criticise it, except in general terms. The Vatican was effectively complicit in their deaths.

Many Christian clergy actively encouraged it, preaching from their pulpits their anti-Semitic hatreds, which in turn taught their disciples that it was OK to exterminate peoples who were different to them.

Why shouldn't Christianity and Christians be condemned for it? Using your logic, guilt by association is OK.

So, as a Christian, do you like being held responsible for 10 million lives fed into the ovens? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

If that was all true - does that excuse Muslims?

The innocent, yes. The gulity, no. I've never defended the bad minority of Muslims who commit heinous deeds, Soren. You however keep confusing them with the innocent Muslims who do nothing wrong, except try and get on with their lives.

Remember my description of your attitudes as "using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut"? That is what you do when you display your bigotry and blame all Muslims for the crimes that a minority commit. You have no finesse, no subtlety in your arguments, you just blast away and blame all Muslims, no matter how disconnected from events for those events. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Yadda

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #54 - May 26^th, 2013 at 2:30am

Brian Ross wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 1:19am:

The innocent, yes. The gulity, no. I've never defended the bad minority of Muslims who commit heinous deeds, Soren. You however keep confusing them with the innocent Muslims who do nothing wrong, except try and get on with their lives.

Remember my description of your attitudes as "using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut"? That is what you do when you display your bigotry and blame all Muslims for the crimes that a minority commit. You have no finesse, no subtlety in your arguments, you just blast away and blame all Muslims, no matter how disconnected from events for those events. Roll Eyes

Brian_Ross,

You refer to some moslems as the innocent moslems ?

Your argument is that;
Choosing to belong to a murderous cult [when its doctrine of murder, is easily comprehended], confers no guilt [upon all of its members] ?

And whether you are going to deny it or not;
That is your argument.

Your argument is that many members must be counted as innocent, even when it is known that their own membership of that murderous cult, is giving comfort to [some] actual murderers ?

e.g.

"I'm an innocent moslem! ....Well, my brother murdered that infidel down the street. But it was the infidels fault, for being a infidel. And no! I will not condemn or report my brother. And i am making an evening meal for my brother, right now."

Too 'focused' an example ?

Not so.

ISLAM is recognised by all moslems,

as a primary 'familial environment' for the moslem, for every moslem.

A moslem, is a moslem.

"Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders."
Ishaq:231

AND;

YT
KILLING OF NON-MUSLIMS IS LEGITIMATE
"...when we say innocent people, we mean moslems."
"....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God."
"...If you are a non-moslem, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a moslem....i must have hatred towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
"...[moslems] allegiance is always with the moslems, so i will never condemn a moslem for what he does."
"...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]"
"...no, i could never condemn a moslem brother, i would never condemn a moslem brother. I will always stand with my moslem brother....whether he is an oppresser or the oppressed."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4i

Your argument that some moslems are innocent [members of a death cult!!] is absurd.

Of course, a murderer is a murderer.

And of course, any person who knowingly gives material comfort to a murderer is complicit in the crime of murder.

And every person who chooses to belong to, and to embrace, a religious cult which sanctions the murder of those outside of their group, is complicit, in those murders that have been committed by the other members of that religious cult.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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moses

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #55 - May 26^th, 2013 at 3:16pm

Everybody will by now have worked out Brian's method of propagating hatred against Christianity, while excusing islamic inhumanities.

He will run every time from the issues of:

1/.muslims who commit atrocities are following their cult (islam) to the very letter.

2/.Christians who commit atrocities are disobeying the teachings of Christ.

He will never address these realities in an honest manner.
==========================================================================

Who is telling lies allah or muslims?

qur'an 14:4; We sent not a messenger except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom.

qur'an16:44; (we sent them) with clear signs and books of dark prophecies; and we have sent down unto thee (also) the message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.

qur'an 3:85; If anyone desires a religion other than islam (submission to allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good).

qur'an 61:9; he it is who has sent his messenger with the guidance and the religion of the truth, that he may cause it to prevail over all religion, even though the disbelievers are averse

qur'an 9:33, It is he who hath sent his messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, to cause it to prevail over all religion, even though the pagans may detest (it).

qur'an 48:28; he it is who has sent his messenger with the guidance and the religion of the truth, that he may cause it to prevail over all religion, and allah suffices as a witness.

Basically you could put the above verse in a short context :

The qur'an been sent so that men can clearly understand it, in order that islam may prevail over all other religions.

Now when ever some one points to the evil in the qur'an, muslims and their apologists come up with the excuse: islam and the qur'an have been misinterpreted or mis-translated.

So if the qur'an can be misinterpreted or mis-translated, who is lying?

islam, muhammad, allah and the qur'an all say the message is clearly explained, perfect and for all mankind.

Therefore everytime a muslim / muslim apologist says the qur'an is misinterpreted or mis-translated, he is calling allah a liar.

This is a perfect example of the danger islam and muslims pose to the rest of us.

islam, allah, muhammad and the qur'an all urge killing people as the method of oppressing opposition in order that **islam may prevail over other religions**

When confronted with this truth, muslims and their apologists simply lie saying it has been misinterpreted or mis-translated.

So not only are muslims liars, their lies prove the qur'an is a flawed evil book.

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Brian Ross

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #56 - May 26^th, 2013 at 3:54pm

Yadda wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 2:30am:

Brian Ross wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 1:19am:

The innocent, yes. The gulity, no. I've never defended the bad minority of Muslims who commit heinous deeds, Soren. You however keep confusing them with the innocent Muslims who do nothing wrong, except try and get on with their lives.

Remember my description of your attitudes as "using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut"? That is what you do when you display your bigotry and blame all Muslims for the crimes that a minority commit. You have no finesse, no subtlety in your arguments, you just blast away and blame all Muslims, no matter how disconnected from events for those events. Roll Eyes

Brian_Ross,

You refer to some moslems as the innocent moslems ?

I take it, Yadda after I sifted through your crayon scribbles that you believe there are no innocent Muslims? Roll Eyes

And you wonder why I believe your arguments are bigoted? Shocked

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« Last Edit: May 26^th, 2013 at 4:06pm by Brian Ross »

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #57 - May 26^th, 2013 at 4:51pm

moses wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 3:16pm:

Everybody will by now have worked out Brian's method of propagating hatred against Christianity, while excusing islamic inhumanities.

He will run every time from the issues of:

1/.muslims who commit atrocities are following their cult (islam) to the very letter.

Errr, perhaps you've missed the points I've been making Moses about those who deserve condemnation should be condemned. Problem is, you assume all Muslims deserve condemnation despite them having nothing to do with anything worth being condemned. Roll Eyes

Quote:

2/.Christians who commit atrocities are disobeying the teachings of Christ.

So, then care to explain this man's actions, Moses?

He claims he is obeying the teachings of Christ. Who am I to disbelieve him? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Baronvonrort

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #58 - May 26^th, 2013 at 4:56pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 1:15am:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 4:46pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 25^th, 2013 at 3:17pm:

How Islam invented a bright new world

Will you read it though, with an open mind? Roll Eyes

Yes i did and its all bullshit, will you read this with an open mind instead of being blinded by your Islamophila?

Quote:

The exhibition claimed to have shown 1001 Islamic inventions,If the best 20 have proven to be false,what of the other 981?

It omits,distorts and makes blunders concerning the most basic of historical facts to give the reader a false impression.

www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Inventions%3F_How_Islamic_Inventors_Did_Not_Chang...

That wiki is based upon prejudice and hatred, not reality. It has zero credibility. Roll Eyes

You could go and ask the ex muslims at the Council of ex muslims forum for an opinion on wiki islam, you might discover many members there contribute to wiki islam.
www.councilofexmuslims.com

You have zero credibility,if your forum is so good why do you troll this forum?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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moses

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Re: The inerrant Koran???
Reply #59 - May 26^th, 2013 at 5:33pm

Brian Ross was known as as troll and liar on another board.

Brian Ross wrote Quote:

Errr, perhaps you've missed the points I've been making Moses about those who deserve condemnation should be condemned. Problem is, you assume all Muslims deserve condemnation despite them having nothing to do with anything worth being condemned

As I said you run from the issue:
1/.muslims who commit atrocities are following their cult (islam) to the very letter.

Therefore I believe yadda answered that perfectly with: Quote:

And every person who chooses to belong to, and to embrace, a religious cult which sanctions the murder of those outside of their group, is complicit, in those murders that have been committed by the other members of that religious cult.

Quote:

moses wrote: 2/.Christians who commit atrocities are disobeying the teachings of Christ.

Brian Ross wrote:He claims he is obeying the teachings of Christ. Who am I to disbelieve him?

If you are ignorant of the basic / general tenets and doctrine of Christianity, What do you base your opinion on?.

It is becoming patently clear, your sentiments regarding the teachings of Christ, are based on willfully ignorant prejudice, bigotry and hatred of Christianity.

I'll say it again Brian: you are an apologist for islamic atrocities committed in accordance with the doctrine of islam, allah, muhammad and the qur'an.

You don't have the intestinal fortitude to face the issues:

1/.muslims who commit atrocities are following their cult (islam) to the very letter.

2/.Christians who commit atrocities are disobeying the teachings of Christ.

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