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What makes a nation 'great'? (Read 15445 times)
Soren
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Re: What makes a nation 'great'?
Reply #15 - Feb 6th, 2011 at 8:31pm
 
From your remark that shows that you think that your pov is above the 'actions are right or wrong' morality. This is a great load of bullsh!t, of course, to pretend to be 'beyond good and evil'.


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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: What makes a nation 'great'?
Reply #16 - Feb 6th, 2011 at 8:40pm
 
Yadda wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 1:48am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 4th, 2011 at 3:02pm:
.
A few points: Your position is predicated on a particular type of morality. You can only believe human beings are corrupt, nasty etc. if you first posit a moral position claiming what acts are right and wrong. The world will always look like a ghastly place if you view it purely through the lens of some moral code because you will always be seeing "evil" in men.
So you were disheartened that people didn't act the way you wanted them to and this attracted you to the bible and god? I don't think that really proves the righteousness (or existence) of god. It seems to merely reflect the personal morality you hold.




Yes, morality is such a tricky subject.
Yes, it is so, so, difficult for us to know the difference between, what is right, and, what is wrong.
/sarc off



Matthew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.



IMO, this generation of mankind has lost the ability to discern between good and evil.

The Judeao-Christian standards and morality, that guided our present culture in its formative period, has been almost entirely abandoned.

Why is that?

Today, our children are taught that it is wrong to try to 'discriminate' between good and evil, and thereby to reject what is evil.
Today, they and we, are taught that essentially, good and evil do not exist.

And we are taught that all people are equally like us.

Today, those who abandon standards, and moral discernment are said to be 'tolerant'.

And instead, we are taught that to differentiate the merits of different cultures, is wrong, and even 'racist'.

IMO, those who take such a position are a part of the problem, a part of the wickedness.

Wickedness rejects responsibility for the consequences of it choices.
i.e.
Wickedness says;
"I can do, whatever i can do. And nobody has the right to criticise my 'morality'."

i.e.
Such people imagine that 'rules' don't apply to them.
They displace God, they displace his laws, his rules, his morality [Matthew 7:12, above].



Immorality = = I make my own rules. [i.e. I am my own god.]
I can do whatever i like, as long as i can get away with it.
i.e.
"If there are no consequences for my actions, what's the prob!!?"

IMO, 'freedom', **to this generation of mankind**, means being able to do whatever they like,
...so long as there are no adverse consequences for themselves.

Like our [community] leaders, they want authority and freedom, but then reject responsibility, when things go wrong.

No?


+++

To me, freedom means, i should try to separate myself from those influences, which, if i allow them act upon me, and my life, they will *cause* my bondage [through their consequences].
i.e.
If i separate myself from wickedness, in my life, i will, remain free and happy.

'Cause and effect'.

It is not rocket science.

Some time ago, in a shopping centre i saw an approximation of our society's 'morality' emblazoned on a man's T-shirt;

"Its only illegal if they catch you."


Many people today seem to believe in such a 'moral' position.

And why?

Because today, children are taught essentially, that good, and, evil do not exist, but if anything is evil, it is 'intolerance'.




"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."
Thomas Mann


Isaiah 1:21
How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.
22  Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:
23  Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.



The problem with Christian morality is that it is grounded on a debunked metaphysics. To claim good and evil come from god is to completely ignore the legislation process. Whatever rules or regulations that are put in place are done so by whoever has the power to. Morality is mostly power games; that of one group imposing their will on another. The group imposing their morality do so because it's either in their interests or the interests they serve. It's always been like this. Christian morality is no different. The morality Christians, and other religious people, want to impose is done in order to benefit their "way of life".
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: What makes a nation 'great'?
Reply #17 - Feb 6th, 2011 at 8:43pm
 
Soren wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 8:31pm:
From your remark that shows that you think that your pov is above the 'actions are right or wrong' morality. This is a great load of bullsh!t, of course, to pretend to be 'beyond good and evil'.



Right, wrong, good, and evil is all perspective. So it would depends on what one considers right, wrong, good, or evil if I would be beyond it or not.
Perhaps you should have asked me first instead of projecting?
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Soren
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Re: What makes a nation 'great'?
Reply #18 - Feb 7th, 2011 at 11:44am
 
Very well - what is your perspective?

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Lisa Jones
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Re: What makes a nation 'great'?
Reply #19 - Feb 7th, 2011 at 12:16pm
 
And what do you consider to be right, wrong, good, or evil etc .. Time?
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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Belgarion
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Re: What makes a nation 'great'?
Reply #20 - Feb 7th, 2011 at 1:00pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 8:43pm:
Right, wrong, good, and evil is all perspective. So it would depends on what one considers right, wrong, good, or evil if I would be beyond it or not.


So any act, no matter how vile or disgusting, can be excused if from the perpetrators perspective it is right?

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)
 
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: What makes a nation 'great'?
Reply #21 - Feb 7th, 2011 at 1:13pm
 
Soren wrote on Feb 7th, 2011 at 11:44am:
Very well - what is your perspective?




This comes close, although it is subject to slight modifications:
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1292918320/0#0
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: What makes a nation 'great'?
Reply #22 - Feb 7th, 2011 at 1:13pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 7th, 2011 at 12:16pm:
And what do you consider to be right, wrong, good, or evil etc .. Time?



As above.
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: What makes a nation 'great'?
Reply #23 - Feb 7th, 2011 at 1:19pm
 
Belgarion wrote on Feb 7th, 2011 at 1:00pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 8:43pm:
Right, wrong, good, and evil is all perspective. So it would depends on what one considers right, wrong, good, or evil if I would be beyond it or not.


So any act, no matter how vile or disgusting, can be excused if from the perpetrators perspective it is right?


Pretty much. How does that expression go, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

You shoud know this. You and your cronies from D&R have sprouted and defended some of the most vile and disgusting acts to ever have graced the net. But let me guess, your violence and hate is objective, right?
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Soren
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Re: What makes a nation 'great'?
Reply #24 - Feb 7th, 2011 at 1:19pm
 
I am not asking what you've made of Kant or Nietzsche. You are knocking the judgements made by Yadda as if that knocking itself was not a judgement.

I am asking you about the perspective or grounding from which you are making judgements.
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: What makes a nation 'great'?
Reply #25 - Feb 7th, 2011 at 1:23pm
 
Soren wrote on Feb 7th, 2011 at 1:19pm:
I am not asking what you've made of Kant or Nietzsche. You are knocking the judgements made by Yadda as if that knocking itself was not a judgement.

I am asking you about the perspective or grounding from which you are making judgements.



Personal preference. All morality is. I've never hidden this fact. And, as stated before, I have a personal preference for Nietzsche and Kant.
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Belgarion
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Re: What makes a nation 'great'?
Reply #26 - Feb 7th, 2011 at 1:56pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 7th, 2011 at 1:19pm:
Belgarion wrote on Feb 7th, 2011 at 1:00pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 8:43pm:
Right, wrong, good, and evil is all perspective. So it would depends on what one considers right, wrong, good, or evil if I would be beyond it or not.


So any act, no matter how vile or disgusting, can be excused if from the perpetrators perspective it is right?


Pretty much. How does that expression go, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

You shoud know this. You and your cronies from D&R have sprouted and defended some of the most vile and disgusting acts to ever have graced the net. But let me guess, your violence and hate is objective, right?


So you actually approve of the views of those on D&R you profess to despise.?
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)
 
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Lisa Jones
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Re: What makes a nation 'great'?
Reply #27 - Feb 7th, 2011 at 2:04pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 7th, 2011 at 1:13pm:
Soren wrote on Feb 7th, 2011 at 11:44am:
Very well - what is your perspective?




This comes close, although it is subject to slight modifications:
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1292918320/0#0



Hypothesis: Actions that display an internal sense of courage, strength, determination, and independence rank higher than those that display cowardice, laziness, and weakness.

Notice, this is about intentions, not consequences. This aligns it with Kant's deontological approach, however, not with his categorical imperative, but with the ethics of Nietzsche.

High ranking ethical behaviour is solely aligned with motivations and symptoms of courage, strength, determination, and independence. The consequences of such behaviour is irrelevant, only the intent matters.

In an age that has no solid point of departure for ethics or morals, but cries out for some foundation or criteria on which to judge behaviour, I deem this an experiment worthy of consideration.

- Time



Is this what you're referring to Time???
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: What makes a nation 'great'?
Reply #28 - Feb 7th, 2011 at 3:54pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 7th, 2011 at 2:04pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 7th, 2011 at 1:13pm:
Soren wrote on Feb 7th, 2011 at 11:44am:
Very well - what is your perspective?




This comes close, although it is subject to slight modifications:
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1292918320/0#0



Hypothesis: Actions that display an internal sense of courage, strength, determination, and independence rank higher than those that display cowardice, laziness, and weakness.

Notice, this is about intentions, not consequences. This aligns it with Kant's deontological approach, however, not with his categorical imperative, but with the ethics of Nietzsche.

High ranking ethical behaviour is solely aligned with motivations and symptoms of courage, strength, determination, and independence. The consequences of such behaviour is irrelevant, only the intent matters.

In an age that has no solid point of departure for ethics or morals, but cries out for some foundation or criteria on which to judge behaviour, I deem this an experiment worthy of consideration.

- Time



Is this what you're referring to Time???



Yes.
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: What makes a nation 'great'?
Reply #29 - Feb 7th, 2011 at 3:57pm
 
Belgarion wrote on Feb 7th, 2011 at 1:56pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 7th, 2011 at 1:19pm:
Belgarion wrote on Feb 7th, 2011 at 1:00pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 6th, 2011 at 8:43pm:
Right, wrong, good, and evil is all perspective. So it would depends on what one considers right, wrong, good, or evil if I would be beyond it or not.


So any act, no matter how vile or disgusting, can be excused if from the perpetrators perspective it is right?


Pretty much. How does that expression go, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

You shoud know this. You and your cronies from D&R have sprouted and defended some of the most vile and disgusting acts to ever have graced the net. But let me guess, your violence and hate is objective, right?


So you actually approve of the views of those on D&R you profess to despise.?



Nice dodge.
Is your morality based on personal preferences or does it come from a god or some mystical timeless, selfless, eternal mode of behaviour?
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