Alright, you've shown that there are flavours of agnosticism. How does each flavour undermine the other?

- Axle

Well these so called flavours do actually undermine each other and I would argue .. in a very significant and contradictory manner.

You see I've demonstrated tonight how one is able to wear the Agnostic label and that label may mean that:

1)  I do believe in God yet on the other hand it may well mean I don't believe in God.

2) my belief or non belief in God is completely unknowable yet on the other hand it might be knowable.

Like I said .. it's wishy washy and all over the place.

Huh?? You just acknowledged that there were indeed different flavours within Agnosticism. And Wiki seems to agree with you.

Now you suddenly don't wish to acknowledge this anymore lol??

Tis ok Axle .. I empathise .. completely.

Thanks for a great discussion. Night.

Axle wrote on Feb 21^st, 2011 at 1:34am:


Ha! You came back lol!

I've now muddied the waters of agnosticism?

Yet all I've done is merely reproduce and present published online information regarding agnosticism .. information that is readily available to any person who googles the word agnosticism.

My definitions??? No .. not mine. Again, the definitions I've posted are available for anyone to see if they google the word agnosticism.

If anything .. you seem to be slowly waking up to the fact that the waters are indeed muddy. Perhaps now you may be able to appreciate why I stated last night that agnosticism was all over the place .. and wishy washy. Muddy? That too.

Paradigm means model.
Therefore a construct or theory because we don't know.

Science is the first to admit its current models will always be superceded.

As for Spirituality: What science (which means knowing) has there been, as universal as that?

Paradigms are different framewaorks of knowlege. Our understanding of the world is usually built from the ground up, with basic concepts and more subtle variations on them.

The term paradigm is often used to refer to the intellectual barrier it can create between people whose views are wildly different. It is like you are speaking a different language, because your view of the fundamentals are so different. I see a lot of political discussions around here where people comment on specific technical issues who obviously have a totally different paradigm from the norm, but think it is somehow useful to offer a brief commentary without explaining where they are coming from. Like a communist blaming a CEO for his bankruptcy, leading people to believe he is referring to a direct link, when in fact it is the entire system that he rejects.

In science, there is a paradigm shoft between for example newtonian mechanics and relativity that people are often unaware of. Relativity is not simply a different set of equations, but attaches a different meaning to things like mass, time and distance.

http://lightworkers.org/channeling/132262/aa-uriels-message-when-are-you-being-may-23-2011


Uriel's Message -- When Are You Being?

The relationship between human and time has always been one you consider as a limitation to your creation. You have to wait for results, to know spirit and heaven, to understand your purpose and life path, to be ready for your connection and so on. Yet the issue of time only exists in your third dimensional reality. All results are measured in the days, weeks, months and years that they take to manifest. Yet this is another third dimensional illusion. When you shift your understanding to higher dimensions you see that time is no more than the motion of energy through the density of illusion.

The more dense the illusion, the harder it is and the longer it takes for energy to move through it. Since you judge your manifestation results by how much time they take to manifest, you believe that time stands between manifestation and creation yet it is not responsible for any delays. Density, which is a mirror of your being, is what creates time or delays in manifestation. And while the greatest amount of density is created by doubt, fear and confusion, it is the 'when' of your being, where you are in your own individual timelines that creates the aspect of time and the level of density associated with it.

When your being is grounded in the past, which is the experiences you have lived, your emotional DNA energies, the vibrations you are at and your energetic frequencies, you are being in a space of great density and illusion which is a mirror of the past. This limits the flow of energy movement and activates the element of time in your manifestations. If you shift your attention to being in the moment you remove the density and time seems to go by quickly which is just another illusion created by the lack of density. From the point of spirit, it is only energy movement that corresponds to your own energetic vibration.

You know 'when' you are placing your being by asking whether you are in the present moment. As you set your intention for each moment, ask 'when' you are being, the point of your timeline where you are energetically. This is the point of your being. You cannot undo, change or re-do the past but you can use that information to create differently in each moment. Stay focused in the present and you will release the density that blocks energy's movement and the illusion of time and waiting, and you will experience instant manifestation as you connect directly and powerfully with the energy that is yours to create with, without density and therefore, without time.

Uriel