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Feminism (Read 13706 times)
mantra
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Re: Feminism
Reply #45 - Mar 4th, 2011 at 12:47pm
 
... wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 11:39am:
Women should seek to enhance and utilise their own abilities and aptitiudes, rather than trying to emulate those of men.


I agree.  

Coral Sea wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 3:23am:
Women find dominant (alpha) males hot

The majority of men aren't alpha, they're beta


Perhaps alpha males are more attractive when females are young and thoughtless. As they mature they get a little sick of the chest beating and prefer males to be dominant in more subtle ways regardless of whether they're considered alpha or beta. Men like a little dominance also.

Quote:
Women who fall out of love with their partners destroy the relationship and frequently become vindictive and spiteful


That's funny. This scenario can apply to both sexes, although perhaps women tend to be a little more devious in planning their revenge.

Quote:
This is why it's necessary for women to be legally, socially, and economically inferior to men

women make useless leaders, engineers, and technicians so the consequences to the economy will be minimal, especially since it will result in a larger workforce in the future (more baby making)


Hmmm - those are pretty brash words CS - you're going to get yourself into trouble with the female members here. Are you a Jew, a Muslim or perhaps a staunch Christian - if so, it's easier to understand your point of view.

Perhaps you have problems with women because they aren't legally, socially and economically inferior to men?

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Lisa Jones
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Re: Feminism
Reply #46 - Mar 4th, 2011 at 1:55pm
 
... wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 12:08pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 11:59am:
... wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 11:39am:
Women should seek to enhance and utilise their own abilities and aptitiudes, rather than trying to emulate those of men.


"Aptitiudes" eh?



If you have an aptitude for picking out typos, maybe utilise that and pursue a career as an editor.  Would be a smarter move than trying to prove that 'anything a man can do, a woman can do better' and taking a shot at being a furniture removalist, or other jobs that men have greater aptitudes for.


I was merely making fun of your silly comment .. and YOU made it very easy for ME to do so.
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Lisa Jones
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Re: Feminism
Reply #47 - Mar 4th, 2011 at 2:00pm
 
Hmmm - those are pretty brash words CS - you're going to get yourself into trouble with the female members here. Are you a Jew, a Muslim or perhaps a staunch Christian - if so, it's easier to understand your point of view.

- Mantra


Here we go again. Mantra .. you're assuming and generalizing about particular groups of people.

As it so happens .. there are MANY Jews, Muslims and staunch Christians who would view Coral Sea's comments with absolute abhorrence and repudiation.

But you're right .. Coral Sea's words are brash .. in fact they are alarming.
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« Last Edit: Mar 4th, 2011 at 2:07pm by Lisa Jones »  

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Re: Feminism
Reply #48 - Mar 4th, 2011 at 2:00pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 1:55pm:
... wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 12:08pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 11:59am:
... wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 11:39am:
Women should seek to enhance and utilise their own abilities and aptitiudes, rather than trying to emulate those of men.


"Aptitiudes" eh?



If you have an aptitude for picking out typos, maybe utilise that and pursue a career as an editor.  Would be a smarter move than trying to prove that 'anything a man can do, a woman can do better' and taking a shot at being a furniture removalist, or other jobs that men have greater aptitudes for.


I was merely making fun of your silly comment .. and YOU made it very easy for ME to do so.



Of course, a more constructive thing to do would be to explain what you find 'silly' about it.  Can I deduce from your response that women should NOT exploit their aptitudes, but instead fight an uphill battle to emulate men in every way?  Do you know why women don't make the best furniture removalists or labourers?
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Feminism
Reply #49 - Mar 4th, 2011 at 2:06pm
 
Having followed Coral Sea's questionable comments over the past week .. I would speculate that he is a confused, angry as well as lonely man who lacks any insight into why he isn't able to nurture any fulfilling long term relationships on any level with the opposite sex.

Either that .. or he is purposely baiting us all as part of some attention seeking ploy.

Irrespective .. he has earned my pity and sympathy.
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Lisa Jones
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Re: Feminism
Reply #50 - Mar 4th, 2011 at 2:11pm
 
... wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 2:00pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 1:55pm:
... wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 12:08pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 11:59am:
... wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 11:39am:
Women should seek to enhance and utilise their own abilities and aptitiudes, rather than trying to emulate those of men.


"Aptitiudes" eh?



If you have an aptitude for picking out typos, maybe utilise that and pursue a career as an editor.  Would be a smarter move than trying to prove that 'anything a man can do, a woman can do better' and taking a shot at being a furniture removalist, or other jobs that men have greater aptitudes for.


I was merely making fun of your silly comment .. and YOU made it very easy for ME to do so.



Of course, a more constructive thing to do would be to explain what you find 'silly' about it.  Can I deduce from your response that women should NOT exploit their aptitudes, but instead fight an uphill battle to emulate men in every way?  Do you know why women don't make the best furniture removalists or labourers?


Again .. your mentality .. and the manner in which you so dreadfully misconstrue women as a group .. well .. it has me in stitches to be brutally honest.

Whenever I see comments such as the anachronistic ones you've offered for us today .. it makes me feel that we may very well have time travellers from 300 yrs ago + .. in our midst.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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Re: Feminism
Reply #51 - Mar 4th, 2011 at 2:12pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 2:11pm:
... wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 2:00pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 1:55pm:
... wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 12:08pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 11:59am:
... wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 11:39am:
Women should seek to enhance and utilise their own abilities and aptitiudes, rather than trying to emulate those of men.


"Aptitiudes" eh?



If you have an aptitude for picking out typos, maybe utilise that and pursue a career as an editor.  Would be a smarter move than trying to prove that 'anything a man can do, a woman can do better' and taking a shot at being a furniture removalist, or other jobs that men have greater aptitudes for.


I was merely making fun of your silly comment .. and YOU made it very easy for ME to do so.



Of course, a more constructive thing to do would be to explain what you find 'silly' about it.  Can I deduce from your response that women should NOT exploit their aptitudes, but instead fight an uphill battle to emulate men in every way?  Do you know why women don't make the best furniture removalists or labourers?


Again .. your mentality .. and the manner in which you so dreadfully misconstrue women as a group .. well .. it has me in stitches to be brutally honest.

Whenever I see comments such as the anachronistic ones you've offered for us today .. it makes me feel that we may very well have time travellers from 300 yrs ago + .. in our midst.




So...nothing specific then, you're just picking a fight?

OK.  No worries.
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Feminism
Reply #52 - Mar 4th, 2011 at 2:14pm
 
Perhaps we have a severe systemic education, training and awareness issue in Oz.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Re: Feminism
Reply #53 - Mar 4th, 2011 at 2:17pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 2:14pm:
Perhaps we have a severe systemic education, training and awareness issue in Oz.




OK, so educate me, starting with what exactly you find faulty with this statement:

Quote:
Women should seek to enhance and utilise their own abilities and aptitiudes, rather than trying to emulate those of men.


Is it becasue I only said WOMEN should do so?  Because really, EVERYONE should do so.
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Coral Sea
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Re: Feminism
Reply #54 - Mar 4th, 2011 at 2:51pm
 
mantra wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 12:47pm:
Perhaps alpha males are more attractive when females are young and thoughtless. As they mature they get a little sick of the chest beating and prefer males to be dominant in more subtle ways regardless of whether they're considered alpha or beta. Men like a little dominance also.

I agree that as women age, gain experience, and mature that they are less interested in the games that alpha males play.  This was a large part of the reason for chivalry in the past.  Rather than leaving the most important decision of a woman's life up to a foolish young thing, her elders who knew better (both men and women) would guide her choice in marriage.  Chivalrous men showed that they did not abuse their social superiority over women and instead showed deference and compassion, which helped impress a fair young maiden's mother, father, and grandparents.

That said, the characteristic alpha traits are universally attractive to women.  I don't necessarily mean silly chest beating (though this works well on trashy girls from lower classes), but indeed the more subtle kind of aloof social dominance.  A big part of the reason older women are less likely to be with alpha males is that the sexual market power of men increases until middle age, whereas the sexual market power of women peaks around age 20.  While some rare beauties remain gorgeous into their 40s and even 50s, rare is the older women who commands the attention of an attractive man with options.

mantra wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 12:47pm:
That's funny. This scenario can apply to both sexes, although perhaps women tend to be a little more devious in planning their revenge.

It can and does apply to both sexes, but about two-thirds of divorce petitions are filed by women.  Anecdotal experience on the 20-something dating market is also that most breakups are initiated by women.  I find women to be much crueler than men, and in divorces I'm familiar with I'm often shocked by the hatred women have for their ex-husbands.  I'm not talking about husbands who were cheaters, abusers, or lay abouts either, but good family men whose only crime was to cease to be attractive to her.

mantra wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 12:47pm:
Hmmm - those are pretty brash words CS - you're going to get yourself into trouble with the female members here. Are you a Jew, a Muslim or perhaps a staunch Christian - if so, it's easier to understand your point of view.

I am an atheist.  My family background is Lutheran, which is a mainline denomination that ordains female pastors.  My views stem from a combination of evolutionary psychology study, study and practice of seduction, my own parents' divorce, and my generally far right political beliefs.

mantra wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 12:47pm:
Perhaps you have problems with women because they aren't legally, socially and economically inferior to men?

I am one of the lucky men who has always been charismatic and funny, so in fact female equality enables a player lifestyle for me.  I'm 25 at the moment and enjoy seeing multiple women.  I desire a family one day, so I'll likely settle down in my 30s.

It is beta males who have problems with women because they aren't legally, socially, and economically inferior to men.  In 90% of marriages today women marry men who are wealthier than them, which is not reflective of male-female wealth disparities anymore.  Food for thought.
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"General, these are American regulars. In a hundred and fifty years they have never been beaten. They will hold."&&-- Col. Preston Brown, C/S, 2nd Division, the Marne, June 1, 1918
 
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Re: Feminism
Reply #55 - Mar 4th, 2011 at 3:35pm
 
What is missing is acknolwdgement that men and women are different. 

Since before there was such a thing as human beings, males have evolved to fulfill a particular role, and women have evolved to fulfill another.  These adaptations can be turned to other tasks than that which they were intially for.  For example, the greater strength of the male of the species evolved to both enable survival, through hunting/warding off/outrunning predators and to compete with other males....but nowadays it has the unintended 'side effect' that men can throw a ball further than women.  All pretty simple stuff.

So the thing is, if you accept the theory of evolution, you cannot reconcile that with 'anything men can do, women can do'.  Men have had millions, perhaps billions of years to evolve into the physically stronger sex...you can't undo that with wishful thinking and a new ideology.

Just remember - EQUAL but OPPOSITE.  Neither sex can exist without the other....so find your role, and fulfil it.
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Re: Feminism
Reply #56 - Mar 4th, 2011 at 4:01pm
 
Coral Sea wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 2:51pm:
That said, the characteristic alpha traits are universally attractive to women.  I don't necessarily mean silly chest beating (though this works well on trashy girls from lower classes), but indeed the more subtle kind of aloof social dominance.  A big part of the reason older women are less likely to be with alpha males is that the sexual market power of men increases until middle age, whereas the sexual market power of women peaks around age 20.

 While some rare beauties remain gorgeous into their 40s and even 50s, rare is the older women who commands the attention of an attractive man with options.


Don't you think 20 is an unrealistic figure to pull out of the air? When you're 30 and ripe for marriage - will you choose a girl under 20 to bear your children? Will it also be a prerequisite that she's socially, legally and financially your inferior?

Quote:
I am one of the lucky men who has always been charismatic and funny, so in fact female equality enables a player lifestyle for me.  I'm 25 at the moment and enjoy seeing multiple women.  I desire a family one day, so I'll likely settle down in my 30s.


It's nice to see a young man who's very confident with his sexuality - you must be an alpha male - lucky you.  Smiley

Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 2:06pm:
Having followed Coral Sea's questionable comments over the past week .. I would speculate that he is a confused, angry as well as lonely man who lacks any insight into why he isn't able to nurture any fulfilling long term relationships on any level with the opposite sex.


Lisa you might accuse me of generalising and labelling, but you are being very judgemental - not just to me but anyone who doesn't share your views.

Try and understand why people think the way they do instead of denigrating them. Open your mind a little.
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« Last Edit: Mar 4th, 2011 at 8:00pm by mantra »  
 
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Re: Feminism
Reply #57 - Mar 4th, 2011 at 4:06pm
 
... wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 3:35pm:
What is missing is acknolwdgement that men and women are different.  

Since before there was such a thing as human beings, males have evolved to fulfill a particular role, and women have evolved to fulfill another.  These adaptations can be turned to other tasks than that which they were intially for.  For example, the greater strength of the male of the species evolved to both enable survival, through hunting/warding off/outrunning predators and to compete with other males....but nowadays it has the unintended 'side effect' that men can throw a ball further than women.  All pretty simple stuff.

So the thing is, if you accept the theory of evolution, you cannot reconcile that with 'anything men can do, women can do'.  Men have had millions, perhaps billions of years to evolve into the physically stronger sex...you can't undo that with wishful thinking and a new ideology.

Just remember - EQUAL but OPPOSITE.  Neither sex can exist without the other....so find your role, and fulfil it.


It's so much easier to say than do. It would be a perfect world if we could just remember that we are equal, but different.

Both sexes are confused today. Although there was a bit of chauvenism around when I was younger - it was a nice chauvenism. Those were the days - when men were men and women knew it.  Cheesy
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Re: Feminism
Reply #58 - Mar 4th, 2011 at 4:12pm
 
mantra wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 4:06pm:
... wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 3:35pm:
What is missing is acknolwdgement that men and women are different.  

Since before there was such a thing as human beings, males have evolved to fulfill a particular role, and women have evolved to fulfill another.  These adaptations can be turned to other tasks than that which they were intially for.  For example, the greater strength of the male of the species evolved to both enable survival, through hunting/warding off/outrunning predators and to compete with other males....but nowadays it has the unintended 'side effect' that men can throw a ball further than women.  All pretty simple stuff.

So the thing is, if you accept the theory of evolution, you cannot reconcile that with 'anything men can do, women can do'.  Men have had millions, perhaps billions of years to evolve into the physically stronger sex...you can't undo that with wishful thinking and a new ideology.

Just remember - EQUAL but OPPOSITE.  Neither sex can exist without the other....so find your role, and fulfil it.


It's so much easier to say than do. It would be a perfect world if we could just remember that we are equal, but different.

Both sexes are confused today. Although there was a bit of chauvenism around when I was younger - it was a nice chauvenism. They were the days - when men were men and women knew it.



It should be instinctual.  I can't recall ever having a sit down with my wife and discussing what our respective roles should be ...we just fell into them.  I fear the simple issue of just being who you are has been over thought and corrupted.  Quite why the feminist movement seems to be ashamed of 'just' being mothers or housewives escapes me. - they're crucial roles!
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Re: Feminism
Reply #59 - Mar 4th, 2011 at 4:47pm
 
... wrote on Mar 4th, 2011 at 4:12pm:
It should be instinctual.  I can't recall ever having a sit down with my wife and discussing what our respective roles should be ...we just fell into them.  I fear the simple issue of just being who you are has been over thought and corrupted.  Quite why the feminist movement seems to be ashamed of 'just' being mothers or housewives escapes me. - they're crucial roles!


Those roles aren't so easy to fall into today, although I think they are still instinctual - but there are too many prohibitions.

Feminism has flourished since the late 70's and part of that doctrine was that women were made to feel guilty if they stayed home for too long with their baby. You can't really just call yourself a mother - you have to be something else as well. Feminism taught us that it was all about pursuing your career and/or contributing to the family budget which seems to grow bigger every year.

Most couples have no choice but to work and pay someone else to look after their children.

I would think that most women would prefer to stay at home nurturing their babies for as long as possible.
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