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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Feminism Reply #60 - Mar 4^th, 2011 at 5:38pm Feminism has been on the wrong track - they should be seeking to increase appreciation for their special skills, rather than trying to beat men at their own game.
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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Feminism Reply #61 - Mar 4^th, 2011 at 10:17pm I've never read so much rubbish in my life. It beggars belief! Where do I start??? This topic should be renamed: The uninformed leading the misinformed.
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mantra Gold Member Offline ozpolitic.com Posts: 10750 Gender:	Re: Feminism Reply #62 - Mar 4^th, 2011 at 10:34pm Don't be so rude Lisa. Auzgurl is still keeping an eye on things here - so you don't have to worry about this sub-forum. Why is it rubbish?
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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Feminism Reply #63 - Mar 4^th, 2011 at 10:48pm Huh???
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aikmann4 Gold Member Offline Posts: 2093 canberra	Re: Feminism Reply #64 - Mar 4^th, 2011 at 10:55pm Quote: Where do I start??? I recommend a retailer where you will be able to purchase a new brain. Do you offer anything other than useless, shallow moral indignation, Ms. Fruiterer?
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Amadd

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Re: Feminism
Reply #65 - Mar 4^th, 2011 at 11:59pm

Quote:

Feminism has been on the wrong track - they should be seeking to increase appreciation for their special skills, rather than trying to beat men at their own game.

I agree with a lot of your comments W.P., and in fact I've mentioned much the same from time to time.
There are things that men are generally good at and things that women are generally good at.
Sometimes there may seem to be no rhyme or reason why a woman does not compete very well against men in a particular field (snooker for example), but that's the way it is, so it may be better to concentrate on more suitable pursuits instead of constantly trying to outdo men just to uphold some 'feminist' idealism.

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Coral Sea

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Re: Feminism
Reply #66 - Mar 5^th, 2011 at 1:30am

mantra wrote on Mar 4^th, 2011 at 4:01pm:

Don't you think 20 is an unrealistic figure to pull out of the air? When you're 30 and ripe for marriage - will you choose a girl under 20 to bear your children? Will it also be a prerequisite that she's socially, legally and financially your inferior?

Female fertility peaks at age 19-20, and this is when women are at the height of their physical beauty. Some women appear to be late bloomers, but this is usually because of an improved sense of fashion and style. A healthy lifestyle can slow the decline of feminine beauty, but unfortunately in both our countries most women do not have a healthy lifestyle.

I would certainly prefer my future wife to be as attractive as possible, and for that matter youth is valuable for maternal reasons. The longer a woman delays childbirth, the harder it is for her to conceive, carry the child to term, and have a child free of genetic defects. This is probably the worst effect of feminism--robbing many women of the lovely children they could've had.

Biological facts are however only a guideline, not a suicide pact. I would probably draw the line at age 28, preferably under 25.

Given that I don't intend to relocate to the Near East, legal and social equality (even female superiority) is a fact that needs to be dealt with, like any other unpleasant truth. On the other hand, I project social dominance and prefer when women are submissive (but not silent). I will also take all available precautions to protect my property from the legal system in the unfortunate event of future divorce. I would probably not marry a woman who earns more than I do, though it's unlikely I'd find one (esp. in that age bracket).

mantra wrote on Mar 4^th, 2011 at 4:01pm:

It's nice to see a young man who's very confident with his sexuality - you must be an alpha male - lucky you.

Thanks for the compliment. It took some work. Girls always liked me, but as an adolescent I was terrified of rejection and pedestalized women. A mixture of experience and research helped me become the man I am today. Interestingly, my father is similar though it took him much longer. He was very insecure as a young man, but developed into a formidable alpha male by his 40s. Some men just start off successful with women, for instance my best friend got with many of the most attractive girls in our high school.

mantra wrote on Mar 4^th, 2011 at 4:01pm:

Lisa you might accuse me of generalising and labelling, but you are being very judgemental - not just to me but anyone who doesn't share your views.

Try and understand why people think the way they do instead of denigrating them. Open your mind a little.

In fairness to Lisa, I'm pretty out there. I self-identify as a racist and sexist (though not a misogynist--I very much enjoy the company and conversation of women). My views can be jarring and offensive.

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"General, these are American regulars. In a hundred and fifty years they have never been beaten. They will hold."&&-- Col. Preston Brown, C/S, 2nd Division, the Marne, June 1, 1918

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mantra

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Re: Feminism
Reply #67 - Mar 5^th, 2011 at 7:14am

Coral Sea wrote on Mar 5^th, 2011 at 1:30am:

I would certainly prefer my future wife to be as attractive as possible, and for that matter youth is valuable for maternal reasons. The longer a woman delays childbirth, the harder it is for her to conceive, carry the child to term, and have a child free of genetic defects. This is probably the worst effect of feminism--robbing many women of the lovely children they could've had.

Did you know that it's the woman who chooses the male for his sperm? I'm sure most males believe it's the other way around, but females instinctively seek out the male who's going to give them the most healthy & attractive children.

Of course there are exceptions to this and there are men who reject certain women, but generally this is the norm.

Quote:

Given that I don't intend to relocate to the Near East, legal and social equality (even female superiority) is a fact that needs to be dealt with, like any other unpleasant truth. On the other hand, I project social dominance and prefer when women are submissive (but not silent). I will also take all available precautions to protect my property from the legal system in the unfortunate event of future divorce. I would probably not marry a woman who earns more than I do, though it's unlikely I'd find one (esp. in that age bracket).

Very sensible because mistakes can occur, but why would it bother you if a woman earnt more than you? If she met all your other requirements - would you put pride before prejudice?

Quote:

mantra wrote on Mar 4^th, 2011 at 4:01pm:

It's nice to see a young man who's very confident with his sexuality - you must be an alpha male - lucky you.

Thanks for the compliment. It took some work. Girls always liked me, but as an adolescent I was terrified of rejection and pedestalized women. A mixture of experience and research helped me become the man I am today. Interestingly, my father is similar though it took him much longer. He was very insecure as a young man, but developed into a formidable alpha male by his 40s. Some men just start off successful with women, for instance my best friend got with many of the most attractive girls in our high school.

I thought you were born either alpha or beta, although I suppose your upbringing could influence the outcome and it would depend a bit on the relationship you had with your mother, sisters etc. as to whether you had confidence with girls.

Quote:

In fairness to Lisa, I'm pretty out there. I self-identify as a racist and sexist (though not a misogynist--I very much enjoy the company and conversation of women). My views can be jarring and offensive.

Your views are a little bit out there - but seeing as you're only young - you can get away with it. You may end up learning to modify your words eventually, but for the time being it's refreshing to see the brashness of youth, although be thankful you're a male. If you were a female - you'd be past your prime - going by your standards. Grin

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Feminism Reply #68 - Mar 5^th, 2011 at 7:08pm In fairness to Lisa, I'm pretty out there. I self-identify as a racist and sexist (though not a misogynist--I very much enjoy the company and conversation of women). My views can be jarring and offensive. - Coral Sea My views can be just as jarring and offensive also .. to racists and sexists that is. I make no apology for them either.
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Amadd

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Re: Feminism
Reply #69 - Mar 6^th, 2011 at 12:24am

Quote:

Did you know that it's the woman who chooses the male for his sperm? I'm sure most males believe it's the other way around, but females instinctively seek out the male who's going to give them the most healthy & attractive children.

I don't think that you've uncovered any major secret there Mantra.

Did you know that most men desire a nice ass, a pretty face, and a nice set of boobs?
I don't think that I've stumbled across any major secret there either, so you would have to say that the objectives are quite similar.

These instinctual similarities end however, when a man is required to provide shelter and protection given the possibility of a child entering the equation.
For most men, there an instinctual feeling of responsibility when a child might be expected. The others are just assholes in need of extermination.

'Real equality' states that a woman should provide equal shelter and protection for a man. Would any sane woman go for that one? I think not.

There are different responsibilities concerning the same objective. Each are as important as the other if the desired result is to be achieved.

IMO, the desired result has been achieved when the children can fend for themselves, or are taken care of.
In the modern world, that means financially, and that's when instinctual law and imagined law cross paths.

Quote:

Very sensible because mistakes can occur, but why would it bother you if a woman earnt more than you? If she met all your other requirements - would you put pride before prejudice?

Once again, instinctual law will dictate that a man wants to be the major bread winner. There's usually no getting around that feeling nomatter what "equality laws" will dictate.
Nomatter what psychologists (who have always had the largest incidence of suicide) say, you cannot turn a crocodile into a dove overnight.
Give it a few hundred tens of thousands of years of evolution (or de-evolution), and it may happen.i

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« Last Edit: Mar 6^th, 2011 at 12:41am by Amadd »

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Feminism
Reply #70 - Mar 6^th, 2011 at 1:34pm

Amadd .. wtf are you on about now? You're starting to sound like some time traveller who's turned up from the Dark Ages.

Men AND women should work together as a team in ALL matters and this pertains to business as well as personal relationship contexts.

We all differ in terms of personal characteristics, personal experiences, individual talents, strengths and weaknesses etc etc.

For this very reason we ALL WIN IF we pull our heads in and co operate. That means we POOL/SHARE whatever personal/material resources we have so as to achieve a WIN-WIN OUTCOME.

sighs ...

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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mantra

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Re: Feminism
Reply #71 - Mar 6^th, 2011 at 2:42pm

Amadd wrote on Mar 6^th, 2011 at 12:24am:

I don't think that you've uncovered any major secret there Mantra.

Did you know that most men desire a nice ass, a pretty face, and a nice set of boobs?
I don't think that I've stumbled across any major secret there either, so you would have to say that the objectives are quite similar.

These instinctual similarities end however, when a man is required to provide shelter and protection given the possibility of a child entering the equation.

For most men, there an instinctual feeling of responsibility when a child might be expected. The others are just assholes in need of extermination.

Yes there are a lot of irresponsible jerks also, but I think it's become all too easy for them to behave this way. They can sow their seed and move on, in many cases with little financial or emotional responsibility expected.

Quote:

'Real equality' states that a woman should provide equal shelter and protection for a man. Would any sane woman go for that one? I think not.

There are women who do still provide this, but when they have children their hormones and priorities change and some men just can't deal with this. They want a mother and an ardent lover all rolled up into one. Maybe women either can't cope with this, or just don't want to. The same way men can't cope with the lack of sex and her changing appearance.

Before feminism, generally women stayed at home, nurturing not only the children, but the husband as well. It didn't matter whether she liked it - often she had no choice but to accept it.

Quote:

There are different responsibilities concerning the same objective. Each are as important as the other if the desired result is to be achieved.

I think this is where too many couples make mistakes. They should realistically make out a contract before marriage on what they both need and expect. The contract should include regular maintenace of the relationship to ensure the couple continue to work towards the same goal. That's obviously unrealistic - but it should be a condition of the marriage contract.

Quote:

IMO, the desired result has been achieved when the children can fend for themselves, or are taken care of.
In the modern world, that means financially, and that's when instinctual law and imagined law cross paths.

Very true, but often by then the rot has set in and it's time to move on. This is the stage where both sexes are moaning about each other.

If we were honest - maybe long term relationships aren't right for many of us, but it's been drummed into us by religion and the media - and looking at our parents' relationship (often long suffering) that this is how it should be.

Quote:

Once again, instinctual law will dictate that a man wants to be the major bread winner. There's usually no getting around that feeling nomatter what "equality laws" will dictate.
Nomatter what psychologists (who have always had the largest incidence of suicide) say, you cannot turn a crocodile into a dove overnight.
Give it a few hundred tens of thousands of years of evolution (or de-evolution), and it may happen.

Maybe not. There are native clans where the male does very little, while the woman is the hunter & gatherer & prepares the food and raises the children.

We've been taught that the male should always be the hunter gatherer, yet when there is no male - the woman takes on the role of raising her family - perhaps more easily than the male would under similar circumstances.

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« Last Edit: Mar 6^th, 2011 at 3:03pm by mantra »

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Amadd Gold Member Offline Mo Posts: 6217	Re: Feminism Reply #72 - Mar 6^th, 2011 at 3:15pm Quote: Maybe not. There are native clans where the male does very little, while the woman is the hunter & gatherer & prepares the food and raises the children. Oh really? You don't have their name and location offhand do you? I may just drop in for a visit
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mantra

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Re: Feminism
Reply #73 - Mar 7^th, 2011 at 7:52am

Haha. I doubt the body shape of the females would appeal to you much Amadd - although a couple of the tribes married the girls off when they were about 10.

There were a series of documentaries on Pay TV - can't remember the name now - but they had 6 western women stay for a month or so with various tribes. These women had been divorced, had bad relationships or were single - but they all loved the lifestyle and the men - some even had offers of marriage.

It was the strong community and family culture which held the most appeal - something western civilisation appears to be short of.

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Re: Feminism
Reply #74 - Mar 8^th, 2011 at 10:31am

Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 6^th, 2011 at 1:34pm:

Amadd .. wtf are you on about now? You're starting to sound like some time traveller who's turned up from the Dark Ages.

Men AND women should work together as a team in ALL matters and this pertains to business as well as personal relationship contexts.

We all differ in terms of personal characteristics, personal experiences, individual talents, strengths and weaknesses etc etc.

For this very reason we ALL WIN IF we pull our heads in and co operate. That means we POOL/SHARE whatever personal/material resources we have so as to achieve a WIN-WIN OUTCOME.

sighs ...

Agreed....but a team in which everyone only wants to play as full forward isn't much of a team at all. A good team needs to people to know their roles, and to play them well. This is why each party needs to learn, enhance and exploit their aptitudes, for the good of the team. This is what I've been saying all along.

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In the fullness of time...

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