Australian Politics Forum - Gillards grieving detention orphan, disturbing

mellie

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Re: Gillards grieving detention orphan, disturbing
Reply #60 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:08am

Equ, the Gillard government always had intentions of "Saving the Orphan" it's just they waited for opening night (the funeral)...to create the illusion that they were 'saints'.... when in fact, had they not reversed Howards policies, this funeral wouldn't be happening to begin with.

Did you know just in airfares alone, it cost us $300,000 to bring them over.

Thus I wonder, how many relatives did they bring out?

What's a one way ticket to Australia from Iraq/Afghanistan these days?

Because it looks as though none of them will be going home anytime soon. Not if they can help it.

Heroes Labor are not!

Roll Eyes

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Equitist

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Re: Gillards grieving detention orphan, disturbing
Reply #61 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:09am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 10:57am:

Thinking about it, I have only ever been to two funerals in my life.

One of them, bizarrely enough, was for a bloke I have never met.

We arrived in Townsville for a holiday and my wife's great uncle died. I ended up at his funeral. Until we got there and I saw the pic on the front, I didn't even know what he looked like.

It's a sorry state of affairs all around.

I feel sorry for these people but at the end of the day we cannot allow soft factors (as we call them in Finance management) to drive through policies which should be dictated by harder factors and economic argument.

Such is life you know. We can't have everyone in Australia.
These people need to play the hand they were dealt - not move to another table.

If you get my drift.

Yes, I do get your drift - but I doubt you get the ironic flightiness of your own comments...

You are suggesting that these families should have stayed put in a country beset by horrific circumstances - and stayed out of the boats - yet you proudly boast that your own family has country-shopped throughout your lives from a far more safe, prosperous and stable birthplace via planes...

Clearly, in your narrow world, some human beings are more equal than others - and some cannot hope to seek a re-deal because they've been dealt a crap hand of cards at a rigged casino table...

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mellie

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Re: Gillards grieving detention orphan, disturbing
Reply #62 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:13am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 10:57am:

Thinking about it, I have only ever been to two funerals in my life.

One of them, bizarrely enough, was for a bloke I have never met.

We arrived in Townsville for a holiday and my wife's great uncle died. I ended up at his funeral. Until we got there and I saw the pic on the front, I didn't even know what he looked like.

It's a sorry state of affairs all around.

I feel sorry for these people but at the end of the day we cannot allow soft factors (as we call them in Finance management) to drive through policies which should be dictated by harder factors and economic argument.

Such is life you know. We can't have everyone in Australia.
These people need to play the hand they were dealt - not move to another table.

If you get my drift.

I've only been to 4 myself, two grandparents, godson's, friends father.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Gillards grieving detention orphan, disturbing
Reply #63 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:14am

The comparison would be valid thy if we had gone around turning up in countries without visas and claiming welfare from day 1.

At any time in my family history - be it my grandparents move to South Africa, my parents moves to varied places and my own moves to varied places - it has always been skilled, legal migration. Offering skills to the receiving country, paying into the country and adding value.

Not hopping in a boat and turning up without an invite simply because you didn't like where you were born.

The comparison or the attempted one is simply ludicrous.

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mellie

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Re: Gillards grieving detention orphan, disturbing
Reply #64 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:19am

Quote:

I feel sorry for these people but at the end of the day we cannot allow soft factors (as we call them in Finance management) to drive through policies which should be dictated by harder factors and economic argument.

Such is life you know. We can't have everyone in Australia.

by-Andreihicks

Well put.

It's sad, tragic, but if we don't start tending to ourselves we are going to lose the global race and will be nothing short of a UN refugee waste disposal centre. This is what they have in mind for us it seems.

There comes a point where you have to sit back and take stock of the debits/credits ....

Look how well Rudd did, the twit!

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Equitist

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Re: Gillards grieving detention orphan, disturbing
Reply #65 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:35am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:14am:

The comparison would be valid thy if we had gone around turning up in countries without visas and claiming welWEALTHfare from day 1.

At any time in my family history - be it my grandparents move to South Africa, my parents moves to varied places and my own moves to varied places - it has always been skilled, legal migration. Offering skills to the receiving country, paying into the country and adding value.

Not hopping in a boat and turning up without an invite simply because you didn't like where you were born.

The comparison or the attempted one is simply ludicrous.

Hmmnnn....one set of rules for rich, white and Xtian folk, another for poor, dark and/or Muslim folk...

One small elite group can get richer, stuff all the rest - ludicrous!

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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culldav

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Re: Gillards grieving detention orphan, disturbing
Reply #66 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:38am

Mellie,

I have to disagree on the point about the 8 year old grieving. I believe the child was simply placed in a psychological situation where he saw all the other adults crying and wailing and not completely understanding what was going on her cried simply because the adults cried.

We all know small children can get upset very quickly and very easily when they see an adult or parent cry.

I have been to one of those Razzamatazz funerals where they carry on with people wanting to jump down the hole and so forth and others have to hold them back.

I was told from the “horses mouth” all this garbage was just an act, and in certain cultures female mourners and relatives of the deceased were expected to act out this grief in public as a sign of respect whether they like them or not.

This kind of made sense to me.

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Equitist

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Re: Gillards grieving detention orphan, disturbing
Reply #67 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:51am

FFS, we saw only a few selected snapshots of the child's behaviour on that day - all grieving people need an outlet for their grief, which may or may not be trigged by the tears and wails of others on the day of a funeral...

Either way, it is best to have an outlet than to bottle up grief inside - and crying is a great release-valve for all human beings (especially children)...

Seriously, why are people like you trying to make political mileage out of this young child's natural grief and post-traumatic stress arising from the terribly-tragic circumstances - of losing not only his mother and father but also his brother in a terrifying boat wreck!?!?!?

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Gillards grieving detention orphan, disturbing
Reply #68 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:55am

Equitist wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:35am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:14am:

The comparison would be valid thy if we had gone around turning up in countries without visas and claiming welWEALTHfare from day 1.

At any time in my family history - be it my grandparents move to South Africa, my parents moves to varied places and my own moves to varied places - it has always been skilled, legal migration. Offering skills to the receiving country, paying into the country and adding value.

Not hopping in a boat and turning up without an invite simply because you didn't like where you were born.

The comparison or the attempted one is simply ludicrous.

Hmmnnn....one set of rules for rich, white and Xtian folk, another for poor, dark and/or Muslim folk...

One small elite group can get richer, stuff all the rest - ludicrous!

Rules being -

SKILLS and ADD VALUE

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Gillards grieving detention orphan, disturbing
Reply #69 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:59am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:55am:

Equitist wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:35am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:14am:

The comparison would be valid thy if we had gone around turning up in countries without visas and claiming welWEALTHfare from day 1.

At any time in my family history - be it my grandparents move to South Africa, my parents moves to varied places and my own moves to varied places - it has always been skilled, legal migration. Offering skills to the receiving country, paying into the country and adding value.

Not hopping in a boat and turning up without an invite simply because you didn't like where you were born.

The comparison or the attempted one is simply ludicrous.

Hmmnnn....one set of rules for rich, white and Xtian folk, another for poor, dark and/or Muslim folk...

One small elite group can get richer, stuff all the rest - ludicrous!

Rules being -

SKILLS and ADD VALUE

do you think that's why your daddy got the sack?

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Gillards grieving detention orphan, disturbing
Reply #70 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 12:01pm

equit Quote:

.......grief and post-traumatic stress arising from the terribly-tragic circumstances - of losing not only his mother and father but also his brother in a terrifying boat wreck!?!?!?.............

bought on entirely due to their own voluntary premeditated illegal warned against dangerous actions.
They ALSO endangered needlessly the lives of innocent others.

send them all back.

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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culldav

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Re: Gillards grieving detention orphan, disturbing
Reply #71 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 12:20pm

Equitist wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:51am:

FFS, we saw only a few selected snapshots of the child's behaviour on that day - all grieving people need an outlet for their grief, which may or may not be trigged by the tears and wails of others on the day of a funeral...

Either way, it is best to have an outlet than to bottle up grief inside - and crying is a great release-valve for all human beings (especially children)...

Seriously, why are people like you trying to make political mileage out of this young child's natural grief and post-traumatic stress arising from the terribly-tragic circumstances - of losing not only his mother and father but also his brother in a terrifying boat wreck!?!?!?

If you want to live your entire life with 'rose coloured' glasses on thats fine, but don't have a go at others because they have taken theirs off.

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mellie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8142 Sydney Gender:	Re: Gillards grieving detention orphan, disturbing Reply #72 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 12:26pm Alevine, grow up! Ignore the trolls guys.
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mellie

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Re: Gillards grieving detention orphan, disturbing
Reply #73 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 12:29pm

culldav wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:38am:

Mellie,

I have to disagree on the point about the 8 year old grieving. I believe the child was simply placed in a psychological situation where he saw all the other adults crying and wailing and not completely understanding what was going on her cried simply because the adults cried.

We all know small children can get upset very quickly and very easily when they see an adult or parent cry.

I have been to one of those Razzamatazz funerals where they carry on with people wanting to jump down the hole and so forth and others have to hold them back.

I was told from the “horses mouth” all this garbage was just an act, and in certain cultures female mourners and relatives of the deceased were expected to act out this grief in public as a sign of respect whether they like them or not.

This kind of made sense to me.

Do you think 8 year olds aren't capable of feeling grief?

I have to ask you something, do you have kids?

My daughter was beside herself when our cat got knocked on the road when she was 7...

She sobbed as we had a little funeral for him, and she was very aware of her loss.

As I'm sure this boy is also.

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Gillards grieving detention orphan, disturbing
Reply #74 - Feb 18^th, 2011 at 12:29pm

Equitist wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 11:09am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 18^th, 2011 at 10:57am:

Thinking about it, I have only ever been to two funerals in my life.

One of them, bizarrely enough, was for a bloke I have never met.

We arrived in Townsville for a holiday and my wife's great uncle died. I ended up at his funeral. Until we got there and I saw the pic on the front, I didn't even know what he looked like.

It's a sorry state of affairs all around.

I feel sorry for these people but at the end of the day we cannot allow soft factors (as we call them in Finance management) to drive through policies which should be dictated by harder factors and economic argument.

Such is life you know. We can't have everyone in Australia.
These people need to play the hand they were dealt - not move to another table.

If you get my drift.

Yes, I do get your drift - but I doubt you get the ironic flightiness of your own comments...

You are suggesting that these families should have stayed put in a country beset by horrific circumstances - and stayed out of the boats - yet you proudly boast that your own family has country-shopped throughout your lives from a far more safe, prosperous and stable birthplace via planes...

Clearly, in your narrow world, some human beings are more equal than others - and some cannot hope to seek a re-deal because they've been dealt a crap hand of cards at a rigged casino table...

Andre believes our immigration intake should be from

"Commonwealth countries"

But he goes a bit coy when you remind him that

India is a part of that demographic

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Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

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