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islam and jews (Read 26503 times)
Foolosophy
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Re: islam and jews
Reply #75 - Mar 10th, 2011 at 9:09pm
 
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 10:53am:
[quote author=Foolosophy link=1299483524/60#62 date=1299716166]....Well, if you have any evidence of Israeli war crimes carried out anywhere, you better let someone know in the Hague.


Are violations of the 4th Geneva Convention considered war cirmes?
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Re: islam and jews
Reply #76 - Mar 11th, 2011 at 7:27am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 6:32pm:
bobby,

Quote:
Abu - as the moderator should set the standard for debate.
e.g  quote + link to verify it. It's not that hard to do.


Your own sources already proved it. I don't need to quote and link when you already provided the source, not even having the requisite intellect to realise it.

chicken,

Quote:
who got it off the British, who got it off the Ottomans, who got it off the Romans


I don't mean to upset your applecart by actually adding some historical accuracy to your point, but the Ottomans did not get it off the Romans. The Ottomans absorbed the Mameluke Sultanate, which had grown out of the Ayyubid Sultanate which had expelled the Crusaders who were temporarily occupying it. the Romans (Byzantines actually) held it prior to the arrival of Islam, but the kings of the land were Romanised Arabs.


Thank you Abu, I knew there was a few more in my list.
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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

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Re: islam and jews
Reply #77 - Mar 11th, 2011 at 8:28am
 
Belgarion wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 10:08am:
Lestat wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 8:25am:
Belgarion wrote on Mar 9th, 2011 at 8:50pm:
abu_rashid wrote on Mar 9th, 2011 at 8:37pm:
Quote:
Even when the Arabs attacked from all sides at once they still lost.


Yeh right... you mean when the only actual trained army was the Jordanians
, and they were commanded by British officers? Yeh they really lost.... If anyone lost, it was the British, but it was quite obviously all a farce.

Let us see when the puppet regimes are all swept out, and the Muslims gain back control of their countries from the Western puppets (something they haven't had since Ottoman times)...

We'll see how long 'Israel' lasts.


I assume you don't consider an army some 100,000 strong, 30,000 with previous combat experience, equipped with tanks, artillery and combat aircraft to be an 'actual, trained army' ?

I would be interested in what your definition of a trained army is.



And which army would that be? Israels?


No. Egypts actually.


I suggest you go back and study your history. What combat experience did the Egyptian military have pre-47?

The Jordanian military was really the only true competition the Jews faced, and they were trained and controlled by the British (The jordanian Foriegn Legion).

Different sides of the same coin really.

The Jews were better armed (by the French and US), better trained (by the US and French), and had better financial backing (US dollars, as well as major players such as the Rothschilds, JP Morgan).

The wars were a farce, a carefully staged facade designed to give Israel some semblence of credibility.

When Islam rises, and muslims truly fight for the sake of Allah and our brothers in Palestine, Israel will have no hope.

The only thing going for the zionists is that we will show them far more mercy then they have showed the Palestinians.
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Re: islam and jews
Reply #78 - Mar 11th, 2011 at 8:29am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 8:08pm:
Look bobby, the fact is Jews ceased ruling independently over the land 2500+ years ago, and as of 1850 years ago they were reduced to nothing but a tiny minority with no rulership at all.

They were slaughtered by the millions - true but some always remained.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Land_of_Israel
Quote:
Under Roman rule (37 BCE-324 CE)
Judeans continued to live in their land in significant numbers, and were allowed to practice their religion, until the 2nd century when Julius Severus ravaged Judea while putting down the Bar Kokhba revolt. 985 villages were destroyed. Banished from Jerusalem, the Jewish population now centred on Galilee.

In the Byzantine period (324-638)
In 438, The Empress Eudocia removed the ban on Jews' praying at the Temple site
In 613, a Jewish revolt against the Byzantine Empire coming into aid of the Persian invaders erupted. The Jews gained autonomy in Jerusalem for 5 years but were frustrated with its limitations.

Under the Islamic Empire (638-1099)
at the time of the Arab conquest in 7th century CE, the majority of the population was Jewish.[27]

In the Crusaders period (1099-1260)
In 1099, along with the other inhabitants of the land, the Jews vigorously defended Jerusalem against the Crusaders.
At this time there were Jewish communities scattered all over the country, including Jerusalem, Tiberias, Ramleh, Ashkelon, Caesarea, and Gaza.

In the Mamluk period (1260-1517)Jews suffered persecution and humiliation but the surviving records cite at least 30 Jewish urban and rural communities at the opening of the 16th century.
In 1488 Obadiah ben Abraham, commentator on the Mishnah, arrived in Jerusalem and marked a new epoch for the Jewish community in The Land.

In the Ottoman period (1517-1917)
The 8,000 or 10,000 Jews in Safed in 1555 grew to 20,000 or 30,000 by the end of the century.
In 1577, A Hebrew printing press was established in Safed. It's the first press in Palestine and the first in Asia.
In 1660, the events surrounding the arrival of the self-proclaimed Messiah Sabbatai Zevi, causes the massacre of the Jews in Safed and Jerusalem.
During the siege of Acre in 1799, Napoleon prepared a proclamation declaring a Jewish state in Israel,
The connection of the Jewish people to the land was kept strongly.


Abu's history of the Jews in Israel:
Quote:
As has been stated, they were there 2000 years ago, but they left








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Re: islam and jews
Reply #79 - Mar 11th, 2011 at 8:29am
 
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 11th, 2011 at 7:27am:
abu_rashid wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 6:32pm:
bobby,

Quote:
Abu - as the moderator should set the standard for debate.
e.g  quote + link to verify it. It's not that hard to do.


Your own sources already proved it. I don't need to quote and link when you already provided the source, not even having the requisite intellect to realise it.

chicken,

Quote:
who got it off the British, who got it off the Ottomans, who got it off the Romans


I don't mean to upset your applecart by actually adding some historical accuracy to your point, but the Ottomans did not get it off the Romans. The Ottomans absorbed the Mameluke Sultanate, which had grown out of the Ayyubid Sultanate which had expelled the Crusaders who were temporarily occupying it. the Romans (Byzantines actually) held it prior to the arrival of Islam, but the kings of the land were Romanised Arabs.


Thank you Abu, I knew there was a few more in my list.


lol, you should thank Abu more often, its quite a common occurance where I see him correcting you.
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Re: islam and jews
Reply #80 - Mar 11th, 2011 at 8:31am
 
Foolosophy wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 9:09pm:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 10:53am:
[quote author=Foolosophy link=1299483524/60#62 date=1299716166]....Well, if you have any evidence of Israeli war crimes carried out anywhere, you better let someone know in the Hague.


Are violations of the 4th Geneva Convention considered war cirmes?


The victorious never commit war crimes, its only the defeated enemy.

Besides, whats the use of having laws against 'war crimes' when certain countries can just 'veto' any decisions made.

International law is a joke, and when this facade (as well as the UN) is destroyed, only then will world affairs improve.
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Re: islam and jews
Reply #81 - Mar 11th, 2011 at 8:34am
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 10:44am:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 10:19am:
Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 9:56am:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 9th, 2011 at 7:12pm:
Abu's history of the Jews in Israel:
Quote:
As has been stated, they were there 2000 years ago, but they left


The history of the Jews -  on Wikipedia -   that Abu is welcome to edit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Land_of_Israel
Quote:
Origins of Israel and Judah (1200-586 BCE)
Babylonian exile, The Return to Zion and the Persian rule (538-332 BCE)
Hellenistic period (332-37 BCE)
Under Roman rule (37 BCE-324 CE)
In the Byzantine period (324-638)
Under the Islamic Empire (638-1099)
In the Crusaders period (1099-1260)
In the Mamluk period (1260-1517)
In the Ottoman period (1517-1917)
British Mandate (1917-1948)
1948 Arab-Israeli War
The modern nation of Israel (1948–present day)




GOOD STUFF BOBBY!!

The fact remains .. whilst Abu spends all day and night on this forum saying whatever he dreams up and imagines (and that is all he has been posting in here thus far) .. the Jews have returned to THEIR ORIGINAL HOMELAND once more as per God's Holy Word  .. which also states that their homeland Israel will last forever.


Last time I checked .. forever was a very LONG time lol Smiley


Thanks Lisa,
Abu is an intelligent guy but he has a habit of throwing ridiculous one liners into his posts e.g.
Quote:
As has been stated, they were there 2000 years ago, but they left


Abu - as the moderator should set the standard for debate.
e.g  quote + link to verify it. It's not that hard to do.
Otherwise his whole section on Islam is becoming nothing more than pub talk.



It isn't gonna happen.

FD and I have been through this road with him a few times before.

I'm pretty sure denial is at the core of all Abu's troubles.

Poor sod! He has my pity these days.


lol @ Lisa.

Abu has made you look the fool you are numerous times. And the funniest thing is...you don't even know it.

Keep it up Lisa...if anything you are good entertainment value. Cheesy

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Re: islam and jews
Reply #82 - Mar 11th, 2011 at 8:40am
 
Lestat.
Quote:
lol @ Lisa.
Abu has made you look the fool you are numerous times. And the funniest thing is...you don't even know it.
Keep it up Lisa...if anything you are good entertainment value.


Leave Lisa alone - she's a good person -  you bully.
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Re: islam and jews
Reply #83 - Mar 11th, 2011 at 9:00am
 
Lestat wrote on Mar 11th, 2011 at 8:28am:
Belgarion wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 10:08am:
Lestat wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 8:25am:
Belgarion wrote on Mar 9th, 2011 at 8:50pm:
abu_rashid wrote on Mar 9th, 2011 at 8:37pm:
Quote:
Even when the Arabs attacked from all sides at once they still lost.


Yeh right... you mean when the only actual trained army was the Jordanians
, and they were commanded by British officers? Yeh they really lost.... If anyone lost, it was the British, but it was quite obviously all a farce.

Let us see when the puppet regimes are all swept out, and the Muslims gain back control of their countries from the Western puppets (something they haven't had since Ottoman times)...

We'll see how long 'Israel' lasts.


I assume you don't consider an army some 100,000 strong, 30,000 with previous combat experience, equipped with tanks, artillery and combat aircraft to be an 'actual, trained army' ?

I would be interested in what your definition of a trained army is.



And which army would that be? Israels?


No. Egypts actually.


I suggest you go back and study your history. What combat experience did the Egyptian military have pre-47?

The Jordanian military was really the only true competition the Jews faced, and they were trained and controlled by the British (The jordanian Foriegn Legion).

Different sides of the same coin really.

The Jews were better armed (by the French and US), better trained (by the US and French), and had better financial backing (US dollars, as well as major players such as the Rothschilds, JP Morgan).

The wars were a farce, a carefully staged facade designed to give Israel some semblence of credibility.

When Islam rises, and muslims truly fight for the sake of Allah and our brothers in Palestine, Israel will have no hope.

The only thing going for the zionists is that we will show them far more mercy then they have showed the Palestinians.


Before the Six Day War  Egypt deployed some 100,000 troops, of whom around 30,000 had previous combat experience in Yemen.  If you are talking about the 1948 war then I will agree that the Israelis were better trained and equipped. However this only shows that in 60 odd years the Arabs have learned nothing.

All these boasts of driving the jews into the sea are not worth a pinch of sh@t as the Arabs have failed in every attempt to do so, in spite of the lavish amounts of equipment and training provided by the Eastern Bloc.

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Re: islam and jews
Reply #84 - Mar 11th, 2011 at 9:03am
 
Foolosophy wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 8:30pm:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 10:53am:
Foolosophy wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 10:16am:
....and how exaclty is all this Historical banter relevant to the Israeli war crimes carreid out on occupied Palestinian territory?


Well, if you have any evidence of Israeli war crimes carried out anywhere, you better let someone know in the Hague.
Otherwise it's just banter.
And I'm assuming that 'Occupied Palestinian' land you are referring to is the West Bank.
If this is so, the Israeli's seized that land in the West Bank in 1948 off the Jordanians,  who got it off the British, who got it off the Ottomans, who got it off the Romans, who got it off the Greeks, Egyptians, Persians etc.
Perhaps the Jordanians should have learnt to make war better when attacking their neighbor.
In fact you might be better off calling Jordan 'Occupied Palestinian' land as this countries population is actually 60% Palestinian.
And the Arab League actually gave their opinion of the proposed 2 state solution way back in 1948, when they attacked Israel and were repulsed.


What boundaries did Israel agree to in 1948?
Why hasnt Israel retreated to pre 1967 boundaries as required by UN resolutions and the UN charter of the rigth of return.

(Surely you are kidding about the nature of the many Israeli the war crimes carried out by the IDF in occupied Palestinian territory? These are on the public record)  


Agree, there was no agreement.
Israel got what it was given.
The bounderies were established by the UN in 1948 which included land allocated for Palestine, and it was those bounderies set during the time of Partition that the Arab League took exception to, and attacked Israel with the intent of reclaiming all the territory.
If those Arabs succeeded in destroying that fledgling Israel, would there be one today do you think?
And why on earth would Israel ever retreat to the 1967 borders?
Those countries which attacked Israel again in 1967 after 1956 and 1948 should have been happy Israel settled for what it did.
If Israel was overrun in 1967, would the Arabs have handed the land back or would Jordan, Syria and Egypt have kept the land for themselves?
So take your pick because I don't believe for one moment they would have handed the land back to Israel and the UN would have done what they always do, nothing.
Do you honestly think they would have established a 'Palestine', because they had thousands of years to do this and never did let alone speak or write about this.
The Ottomans certainly never did.
Handing back those territories only places Israel's major cities closer to former and potential enemies, and those countries rolled the dice of war four times and lost every time.
It's called the spoils of war.
And as far as the 'Palestinians territories are concerned, I guess where some would call something a war crime, others would call it war.
Some would call firing missiles into Israel's towns or blowing up schoolbuses and seaside cafeteria's a war crime too, but none outside Israel discuss those things.
And whether you like it or not, the only democratic country in the Middle East, Israel, has a right to defend itself and yes innocents are hurt in war.
The days are 66 long years gone where the Jews used to line up naked in the snow and shuffle off silently to the 'showers' to be sent up the chimney, whilst the Mufti of Jeruselem supplied men to serve Hitler.
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Re: islam and jews
Reply #85 - Mar 11th, 2011 at 9:19am
 
Lestat wrote on Mar 11th, 2011 at 8:28am:
Belgarion wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 10:08am:
Lestat wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 8:25am:
Belgarion wrote on Mar 9th, 2011 at 8:50pm:
abu_rashid wrote on Mar 9th, 2011 at 8:37pm:
Quote:
Even when the Arabs attacked from all sides at once they still lost.


Yeh right... you mean when the only actual trained army was the Jordanians
, and they were commanded by British officers? Yeh they really lost.... If anyone lost, it was the British, but it was quite obviously all a farce.

Let us see when the puppet regimes are all swept out, and the Muslims gain back control of their countries from the Western puppets (something they haven't had since Ottoman times)...

We'll see how long 'Israel' lasts.


I assume you don't consider an army some 100,000 strong, 30,000 with previous combat experience, equipped with tanks, artillery and combat aircraft to be an 'actual, trained army' ?

I would be interested in what your definition of a trained army is.



And which army would that be? Israels?


No. Egypts actually.


I suggest you go back and study your history. What combat experience did the Egyptian military have pre-47?

The Jordanian military was really the only true competition the Jews faced, and they were trained and controlled by the British (The jordanian Foriegn Legion).

Different sides of the same coin really.

The Jews were better armed (by the French and US), better trained (by the US and French), and had better financial backing (US dollars, as well as major players such as the Rothschilds, JP Morgan).

The wars were a farce, a carefully staged facade designed to give Israel some semblence of credibility.

When Islam rises, and muslims truly fight for the sake of Allah and our brothers in Palestine, Israel will have no hope.

The only thing going for the zionists is that we will show them far more mercy then they have showed the Palestinians.



Who is 'We'?
How about how the Muslim brothers treat there own.
The Jordanians slaughtered thousands upon thousands during the Black September Massacres in 1970, and recently tore up all dual Palestinian / Jordnaian passports because they don't want any more of them, despite Jordan's population being 60% Palestinian.
The Lebanese treat Palestinians as 3rd class citizens by keeping them behind razor wire, and heavily restricting employment opportunities.
The Egyptians would rather deal with Israel and keep Palestinians out of Egypt.
The Saudi's treat them as low paid coolies.
The Iraqi's deported them by the thousands 2 or 3 years ago.
And you are dreaming if you think those 4 Arab / Israeli Wars were stage managed.
It was war, and men died by the thousands and the Arab League were not 'acting' like they were in some school play.
And if those that died were here today, they would not agree with your assessment either.
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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

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Re: islam and jews
Reply #86 - Mar 11th, 2011 at 9:54am
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 11th, 2011 at 8:29am:
abu_rashid wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 8:08pm:
Look bobby, the fact is Jews ceased ruling independently over the land 2500+ years ago, and as of 1850 years ago they were reduced to nothing but a tiny minority with no rulership at all.

They were slaughtered by the millions - true but some always remained.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Land_of_Israel
Quote:
Under Roman rule (37 BCE-324 CE)
Judeans continued to live in their land in significant numbers, and were allowed to practice their religion, until the 2nd century when Julius Severus ravaged Judea while putting down the Bar Kokhba revolt. 985 villages were destroyed. Banished from Jerusalem, the Jewish population now centred on Galilee.

In the Byzantine period (324-638)
In 438, The Empress Eudocia removed the ban on Jews' praying at the Temple site
In 613, a Jewish revolt against the Byzantine Empire coming into aid of the Persian invaders erupted. The Jews gained autonomy in Jerusalem for 5 years but were frustrated with its limitations.

Under the Islamic Empire (638-1099)
at the time of the Arab conquest in 7th century CE, the majority of the population was Jewish.[27]

In the Crusaders period (1099-1260)
In 1099, along with the other inhabitants of the land, the Jews vigorously defended Jerusalem against the Crusaders.
At this time there were Jewish communities scattered all over the country, including Jerusalem, Tiberias, Ramleh, Ashkelon, Caesarea, and Gaza.

In the Mamluk period (1260-1517)Jews suffered persecution and humiliation but the surviving records cite at least 30 Jewish urban and rural communities at the opening of the 16th century.
In 1488 Obadiah ben Abraham, commentator on the Mishnah, arrived in Jerusalem and marked a new epoch for the Jewish community in The Land.

In the Ottoman period (1517-1917)
The 8,000 or 10,000 Jews in Safed in 1555 grew to 20,000 or 30,000 by the end of the century.
In 1577, A Hebrew printing press was established in Safed. It's the first press in Palestine and the first in Asia.
In 1660, the events surrounding the arrival of the self-proclaimed Messiah Sabbatai Zevi, causes the massacre of the Jews in Safed and Jerusalem.
During the siege of Acre in 1799, Napoleon prepared a proclamation declaring a Jewish state in Israel,
The connection of the Jewish people to the land was kept strongly.


Abu's history of the Jews in Israel:
Quote:
As has been stated, they were there 2000 years ago, but they left






Thank you Bobby, you made the point well.
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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

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Re: islam and jews
Reply #87 - Mar 11th, 2011 at 10:06am
 
Chicken,
Quote:
Thank you Bobby, you made the point well.


Thankyou - all I want is for Abu to apologise for using cheap one liners
on this forum to re-write history.
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Re: islam and jews
Reply #88 - Mar 11th, 2011 at 10:12am
 
Lestat wrote on Mar 11th, 2011 at 8:29am:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 11th, 2011 at 7:27am:
abu_rashid wrote on Mar 10th, 2011 at 6:32pm:
bobby,

Quote:
Abu - as the moderator should set the standard for debate.
e.g  quote + link to verify it. It's not that hard to do.


Your own sources already proved it. I don't need to quote and link when you already provided the source, not even having the requisite intellect to realise it.

chicken,

Quote:
who got it off the British, who got it off the Ottomans, who got it off the Romans


I don't mean to upset your applecart by actually adding some historical accuracy to your point, but the Ottomans did not get it off the Romans. The Ottomans absorbed the Mameluke Sultanate, which had grown out of the Ayyubid Sultanate which had expelled the Crusaders who were temporarily occupying it. the Romans (Byzantines actually) held it prior to the arrival of Islam, but the kings of the land were Romanised Arabs.


Thank you Abu, I knew there was a few more in my list.


lol, you should thank Abu more often, its quite a common occurance where I see him correcting you.


Yes he did a very good job in proving my point better.
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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

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Re: islam and jews
Reply #89 - Mar 11th, 2011 at 11:35am
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 11th, 2011 at 10:06am:
Chicken,
Quote:
Thank you Bobby, you made the point well.


Thankyou - all I want is for Abu to apologise for using cheap one liners
on this forum to re-write history.


How can Abu explain this?

Under the Islamic Empire (638-1099)
at the time of the Arab conquest in 7th century CE,

the majority of the population was Jewish.
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