Australian Politics Forum - islam and jews

chicken_lipsforme

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Re: islam and jews
Reply #90 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:50am

Lestat wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 8:28am:

When Islam rises, and muslims truly fight for the sake of Allah and our brothers in Palestine, Israel will have no hope.

Those armies that attacked Israel in 1948, 1956, 1967 & 1973 weren't fighting for any 'brothers' in Palestine.
They attacked to kill Jews and wipe Israel off the map, and steal the land for themselves.
They couldn't give a crap for Palestinian brotherhood then, and they still treat them like lepers today.
If they were so interested in their 'brothers' in Palestine having their own nation state, they had twelve or so hundred years to establish this.
But of course the term 'Palestinian' is a twentieth century invention which explains why Palestine was never formed as a nation state during this time.
And as for Islam rising and destroying Israel, this has been tried four times before with total failure.
And today Israel has the 'bomb' if some are to be beleived.
I would suggest Islam has seen enough of 100's of 1000's of their young men crispy fried, lying on the desert floor in twisted metal which was once tanks & aircraft in those four wars.
Today, most of Israel's former enemies would rather trade than make war.
And Israel remains the centre piece of modern invention in the entire Middle East with which these Islamic nations deal with.
The Muslims in Israel also enjoy the highest standard of living, so you wont find many outside of the extremist nations calling for Israel's destruction.

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: islam and jews
Reply #91 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:52am

Bobby. wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:35am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 10:06am:

Chicken,
Quote:

Thank you Bobby, you made the point well.

Thankyou - all I want is for Abu to apologise for using cheap one liners
on this forum to re-write history.

How can Abu explain this?

Under the Islamic Empire (638-1099)
at the time of the Arab conquest in 7th century CE,

the majority of the population was Jewish.

I think you will find Abu prefers his own history book that he wrote rather than the official version.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
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Bobby.

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Re: islam and jews
Reply #92 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 12:05pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:52am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:35am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 10:06am:

Chicken,
Quote:

Thank you Bobby, you made the point well.

Thankyou - all I want is for Abu to apologise for using cheap one liners
on this forum to re-write history.

How can Abu explain this?

Under the Islamic Empire (638-1099)
at the time of the Arab conquest in 7th century CE,

the majority of the population was Jewish.

I think you will find Abu prefers his own history book that he wrote rather than the official version.

With Allah's will he will apologise.

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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: islam and jews
Reply #93 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 2:28pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 12:05pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:52am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:35am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 10:06am:

Chicken,
Quote:

Thank you Bobby, you made the point well.

Thankyou - all I want is for Abu to apologise for using cheap one liners
on this forum to re-write history.

How can Abu explain this?

Under the Islamic Empire (638-1099)
at the time of the Arab conquest in 7th century CE,

the majority of the population was Jewish.

I think you will find Abu prefers his own history book that he wrote rather than the official version.

With Allah's will he will apologise.

Possibly when it snows in Mecca Bobby.

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
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Lestat

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Re: islam and jews
Reply #94 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 2:56pm

Belgarion wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 9:00am:

Lestat wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 8:28am:

Belgarion wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 10:08am:

Lestat wrote on Mar 10^th, 2011 at 8:25am:

Belgarion wrote on Mar 9^th, 2011 at 8:50pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 9^th, 2011 at 8:37pm:

Quote:

Even when the Arabs attacked from all sides at once they still lost.

Yeh right... you mean when the only actual trained army was the Jordanians, and they were commanded by British officers? Yeh they really lost.... If anyone lost, it was the British, but it was quite obviously all a farce.

Let us see when the puppet regimes are all swept out, and the Muslims gain back control of their countries from the Western puppets (something they haven't had since Ottoman times)...

We'll see how long 'Israel' lasts.

I assume you don't consider an army some 100,000 strong, 30,000 with previous combat experience, equipped with tanks, artillery and combat aircraft to be an 'actual, trained army' ?

I would be interested in what your definition of a trained army is.

And which army would that be? Israels?

No. Egypts actually.

I suggest you go back and study your history. What combat experience did the Egyptian military have pre-47?

The Jordanian military was really the only true competition the Jews faced, and they were trained and controlled by the British (The jordanian Foriegn Legion).

Different sides of the same coin really.

The Jews were better armed (by the French and US), better trained (by the US and French), and had better financial backing (US dollars, as well as major players such as the Rothschilds, JP Morgan).

The wars were a farce, a carefully staged facade designed to give Israel some semblence of credibility.

When Islam rises, and muslims truly fight for the sake of Allah and our brothers in Palestine, Israel will have no hope.

The only thing going for the zionists is that we will show them far more mercy then they have showed the Palestinians.

Before the Six Day War Egypt deployed some 100,000 troops, of whom around 30,000 had previous combat experience in Yemen. If you are talking about the 1948 war then I will agree that the Israelis were better trained and equipped. However this only shows that in 60 odd years the Arabs have learned nothing.

All these boasts of driving the jews into the sea are not worth a pinch of sh@t as the Arabs have failed in every attempt to do so, in spite of the lavish amounts of equipment and training provided by the Eastern Bloc.

I suggest you re-read Abu's post. The topic was the 48 war, not 67.

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Belgarion Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5453 Gender:	Re: islam and jews Reply #95 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 3:11pm Lestat wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 2:56pm: I suggest you re-read Abu's post. The topic was the 48 war, not 67. Sorry. The Arabs have lost so many wars it's hard to keep track.
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Bobby.

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Re: islam and jews
Reply #96 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 3:52pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 2:28pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 12:05pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:52am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 11:35am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 10:06am:

Chicken,
Quote:

Thank you Bobby, you made the point well.

Thankyou - all I want is for Abu to apologise for using cheap one liners
on this forum to re-write history.

How can Abu explain this?

Under the Islamic Empire (638-1099)
at the time of the Arab conquest in 7th century CE,

the majority of the population was Jewish.

I think you will find Abu prefers his own history book that he wrote rather than the official version.

With Allah's will he will apologise.

Possibly when it snows in Mecca Bobby.

Chicken - with God's will anything is possible.
If Allah commanded that snow would fall in Mecca then it would. Wink

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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: islam and jews Reply #97 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 4:08pm Lestat, to be perfectly honest...IF Israel disappeared tomorrow, the 'Arab World' would destroy itself within a decade... All the various Arab countries hate each other...ALMOST as much as they hate Israel and the Jews... If Israel didn't exist, they'd wipe each other out inside of one generation....
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abu_rashid

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Re: islam and jews
Reply #98 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 7:06pm

Quote:

How can Abu explain this?

Under the Islamic Empire (638-1099)
at the time of the Arab conquest in 7th century CE,

the majority of the population was Jewish.

Sounds like this is one of the "Mamelukes ruled from Turkey" claims. When the Muslims arrived in Palestine, they wrote about a Byzantine Christian land. There were no historical accounts of it being majority Jewish, this is pure Zionist fantasy. If, however, you can bring a relevant reference _from_ the time period in question, then you might have something to stand on. Merely reposting an unauthenticated wiki-claim is not going to cut it I'm sorry, when all known historical records tell a completely different story.

Surely if there were any Jewish state, or a majority Jewish population there when the Muslims arrived, then it would've been documented somewhere, something like that is kinda hard to miss. The Islamic Caliphate was always meticulous in keeping records, and they fairly regularly completed censuses, yet there's no record of a Jewish majority there ever until the massive illegal population saturations of the 20th. century, known in Hebrew as Aliyahs.

Even in the late 1800's when the illegal Jewish immigration had already begun, Jews were still less than 2% of the population... And there's no record of any great mass exodus of Jews from the land, except after their final defeat at Masada, about 1800+ years ago, as I've already stated.

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Bobby.

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Re: islam and jews
Reply #99 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 7:11pm

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 7:06pm:

Quote:

How can Abu explain this?

Under the Islamic Empire (638-1099)
at the time of the Arab conquest in 7th century CE,

the majority of the population was Jewish.

Sounds like this is one of the "Mamelukes ruled from Turkey" claims. When the Muslims arrived in Palestine, they wrote about a Byzantine Christian land. There were no historical accounts of it being majority Jewish, this is pure Zionist fantasy. If, however, you can bring a relevant reference _from_ the time period in question, then you might have something to stand on. Merely reposting an unauthenticated wiki-claim is not going to cut it I'm sorry, when all known historical records tell a completely different story.

Surely if there were any Jewish state, or a majority Jewish population there when the Muslims arrived, then it would've been documented somewhere, something like that is kinda hard to miss. The Islamic Caliphate was always meticulous in keeping records, and they fairly regularly completed censuses, yet there's no record of a Jewish majority there ever until the massive illegal population saturations of the 20th. century, known in Hebrew as Aliyahs.

Even in the late 1800's when the illegal Jewish immigration had already begun, Jews were still less than 2% of the population... And there's no record of any great mass exodus of Jews from the land, except after their final defeat at Masada, about 1800+ years ago, as I've already stated.

That quote was referenced at the bottom of the page on Wiki. to number 27:

Quote:

^ Moshe Gil, "A History of Palestine: 634-1099"

I suppose you would have to read his book.
I don't know if it's online.

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abu_rashid

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Re: islam and jews
Reply #100 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 7:20pm

Btw, here's a few nice quotes from wikipedia about the Jews in Palestine after the Roman period:

Quote:

Eventually, the Jews rose against Roman rule in 66 CE in a revolt that was unsuccessful. Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 CE and much of the population was killed or enslaved

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea)

Quote:

The Jews rebelled again 70 years later under the leadership of Simon bar Kokhba and established the last Kingdom of Israel, which lasted three years, before the Romans managed to conquer the province for good, at a high cost in terms of manpower and expense.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea)

Quote:

The Romans vanquished the Galilee, and an estimated 100,000 Jews were killed or sold into slavery.

(http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/revolt.html)

Quote:

It is estimated that as many as one million Jews died in the Great Revolt against Rome.

(http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/revolt.html)

Quote:

When people today speak of the almost two-thousand-year span of Jewish homelessness and exile, they are dating it from the failure of the revolt and the destruction of the Temple

(http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/revolt.html)

It's hard to fathom that well over a million Jews were murdered and sold off into slavery or fled, yet they remained a majority in the land. Also that last quote clearly admits they've been exiled from the land for 2000 years, precisely as I stated.

Why on earth you still can't comprehend this is beyond me. Personally I thought it was a part of common general knowledge the Jews were exiled from their former land, into the "diaspora". Seems now that it's become politically advantageous to claim otherwise, the Zionists have begun doing so, not realising it goes against all historical records for the past 2000 years.

Nevermind though, when they've only got idiots such as yourself to convince, they're on a winner no matter what garbage they concoct.

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abu_rashid

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Re: islam and jews
Reply #101 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 7:24pm

Quote:

That quote was referenced at the bottom of the page on Wiki. to number 27:

Quote:
^ Moshe Gil, "A History of Palestine: 634-1099"

Yeh, referenced to a fantasy Zionist propaganda book, sounds quite authentic.

So we've got hundreds of thousands of historical documents from all around Palestine from that time until now which shows us Jews were a tiny minority, compared to one book written by a Zionist Jew in the past 50 years.... yes it's very hard to discern fact from fiction isn't it?

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 106314 Melbourne Gender:	Re: islam and jews Reply #102 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 7:25pm Abu, Don't shoot the messenger. If I am wrong it's because Moshe Gil wrote lies in his book: "A History of Palestine: 634-1099" At least you're starting to give quotes to back up your history - well done!
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abu_rashid

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Re: islam and jews
Reply #103 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 7:28pm

No, you are wrong because you debate issues about which you obviously have not even a rudeimentary layman's understanding. You are wrong because you base your views upon what a few whacko propagandists have begun claiming in the past few decades.

And the whole time you've been claiming I am against the tide of history... you are a joke seriously. If I were you, I'd honestly be ashamed to show myself on this forum again. I don't know how people such as yourself just have so little integrity that you post this garbage, for page after page and then say "ahhh my source is weak, not my fault".

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Bobby.

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Re: islam and jews
Reply #104 - Mar 11^th, 2011 at 7:47pm

Abu,
I never said that Moshe Gil was wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Gil
Quote:

Moshe Gil specializes in the historical interaction between Islam and the Jews, including the history of Palestine under the Islamic domination, the institution of the Exilarchate, and Jewish merchants such as the Radhanites. Gil is professor emeritus of the Chaim Rosenberg School of Jewish Studies at Tel Aviv University and holds the Joseph and Ceil Mazer Chair in the History of the Jews in Muslim Lands.

Abu,
Are you saying that you are more knowledgable than a university professor
who specialises in this topic?

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