Australian Politics Forum - Are we all equal ?

Lisa Jones

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Re: Are we all equal ?
Reply #75 - Mar 21^st, 2011 at 11:14am

Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 21^st, 2011 at 11:05am:

Yadda wrote on Mar 21^st, 2011 at 10:59am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 21^st, 2011 at 10:34am:

Thanks again for posting all this for everyone to see.

It's impt that everyone sees what the Holy Bible has to say about racism and sexism.

Lisa,

The Bible shows that many women were 'favoured' by God.

e.g.
Ruth, who was both a 'stranger' and, a woman. Wink

Ruth was a Moabitess [a woman of Moab], i.e. a people who were traditional enemies of Israel.

And, Ruth was the great grandmother of King David.

WELL SAID!

I had that saved .. ready to post but you beat me to it lol

Thanks once again for your support in demonstrating to all how sexism and racism goes against God's Holy Word.

It's such a shame to see "so called Christians" (like Sprintcyclist) about .. who preach sexism and racism ie hate for the sake of upholding a man made extreme right wing ideology which clearly contravenes God's Word. In short .. they are practising confusion and lawlessness.

Good for all to see what God himself says about this .. as I've stated above in Matthew 7:21-23:

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'"

Oh and Yadda .. you gonna mention Deborah next? You may as well let everyone know about her now.

And Esther .. while you're there.

<< smiles >>

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it_is_the_light

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Re: Are we all equal ?
Reply #76 - Mar 21^st, 2011 at 11:15am

Did you know there are people like Sprintcyclist (the Moderator of this forum) .. who profess to be a Christian (a follower of Christ) and who are pro sexist AND pro racist?

In short .. these "so called" Christians don't believe we are equal at all.

Does this surprise you at all?

___________

freewill

i do not judge i observe yes,

many of these ones are freemasons..maybe sprinter

is a freemason in the flock of christians catholics muslims

there are many.

namaste

-:)

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ॐ May Much LOVE and CHRISTS LIGHT be upon and within us all.... namasté ▲ - : ) ╰დ╮ॐ╭დ╯

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21815 A cat with a view	Re: Are we all equal ? Reply #77 - Mar 21^st, 2011 at 11:18am Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 21^st, 2011 at 11:14am: Yadda .. you gonna mention Deborah next? You may as well let everyone know now. And Esther .. while you're there. << smiles >> And Abigail. Now there was a wise woman. Much, much, wiser than her husband! 1 Samuel 25
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Lisa Jones

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Re: Are we all equal ?
Reply #78 - Mar 21^st, 2011 at 11:24am

That's right Yadda .. the Word discredits her husband as a churl and a fool and even upholds HER above her husband.

Oh and let's not forget .. DEBORAH WAS a famous JUDGE of ISRAEL .. and she ruled wisely.

It's good for those so called Christians in our midst who are so proud of being pro sexist and pro racist .. to remember that.

The women in the Bible aren’t just window dressing or background scenery. Women like Sarah are not just wives and mothers; they’re also matriarchs, prophetesses, teachers, and leaders, as in the case of Deborah the Judge and Esther the Queen.

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« Last Edit: Mar 21^st, 2011 at 11:32am by Lisa Jones »

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Are we all equal ? Reply #79 - Mar 21^st, 2011 at 12:30pm How restrictive trying to look at this question through the narrow lens of the bible.
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Yadda

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Re: Are we all equal ?
Reply #80 - Mar 21^st, 2011 at 12:50pm

... wrote on Mar 21^st, 2011 at 12:30pm:

How restrictive trying to look at this question through the narrow lens of the bible.

That is your opinion.

And you are entitled to it.

Do you believe that secular man and is reasoning powers are so very superior ???

To the wisdom about man, which is secreted away, within the Bible.

Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

The human condition fascinates me.

It fascinates me, how humans want authority, and the right to choose [to pleasure themselves].

Yet will subsequently then, totally reject the responsibility for the predictable negative consequences of many of those choices.

I study the Bible because the human condition fascinates me.

I also watch popular movies also, because the human condition fascinates me.

It gives me pleasure, to learn more about my own flawed nature.

Its all good. Wink

"It is counter-productive to raise children in a world without consequences."

Temperance Brennan
Bones - The Bone That Blew
season 4 disc 3

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Are we all equal ?
Reply #81 - Mar 21^st, 2011 at 5:27pm

It's wonderful and encouraging to see that there are Christians (like Yadda) out there who are genuine and can take the Bible in context.

Thank you Yadda for showing others on here that God in his Holy Word does NOT SUPPORT racism OR sexism. There are so many verses and whole passages within the Old and New Testaments of the Holy Bible which clearly show God is NO RESPECTOR OF PERSONS.

And both you and I have outlined quite a few of these examples today.

It is a shame and a disgrace to see so called Christians (like Sprint) who walk into message boards to pluck 1 verse out of context and somehow assert this as evidence that God is some racist and/or sexist being.

I am disgusted that Sprint has even started a new topic attempting to do just that in here:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1300677736/0#4

A closer look at such people reveals that they have effectively betrayed and sold out on God in order to pathetically and desperately legitimize an extreme Right Wing ideology which contravenes the core tenets of the Holy Bible.

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« Last Edit: Mar 21^st, 2011 at 5:33pm by Lisa Jones »

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Amadd

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Re: Are we all equal ?
Reply #82 - Mar 21^st, 2011 at 6:32pm

Quote:

How restrictive trying to look at this question through the narrow lens of the bible.

Exactly.

"In the Church of England in Britain, the mother church of the world’s 76 million Anglicans, women priests make up only about 16 per cent of full-time clergy. The church is also pushing towards the consecration of women bishops but there is significant dissent within church ranks. The international provinces – the national and regional units that comprise the global church – are still split. In Australia there are 360 women among a total of 3403 Anglican priests."

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« Last Edit: Mar 21^st, 2011 at 6:42pm by Amadd »

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Are we all equal ? Reply #83 - Mar 21^st, 2011 at 9:50pm For those who are too young to remember this series :
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Soren

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Re: Are we all equal ?
Reply #84 - Mar 21^st, 2011 at 10:40pm

The idea of political emancipation that we take for granted was first worked out on the basis of Christianity, by John Locke. Europe had a devastating period of religiou wars and England had a couple of revolutions and civil wars and an executed king in the 17th century (beat the Frencg again, this time by ovr a 100 years).

Locke's arguments were based on Christian doctrines and the use of reason (a divine element in humans). Not surprisingly, his arguments are diametrically opposed to Islamic doctrines on the nature of religion and government. My point is that Locke's (and our) argument for political emancipation and religious tolerance could be made only in a Christian context and a peculiarly English one at that; and cannot be made in other religious contexts to this day unless they share those fundamentally Christian views of the person, of religion and government.

Hindu, Mohammedan, Voodoo, Buddhist doctrines do not offer a way out of inequality. Christiany may not spell it all out exactly like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights but it has offered the only foundations and path to that declaration.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Are we all equal ?
Reply #85 - Mar 22^nd, 2011 at 8:58am

Soren wrote on Mar 21^st, 2011 at 10:40pm:

The idea of political emancipation that we take for granted was first worked out on the basis of Christianity, by John Locke. Europe had a devastating period of religious wars and England had a couple of revolutions and civil wars and an executed king in the 17th century (beat the French again, this time by over a 100 years).

Locke's arguments were based on Christian doctrines and the use of reason (a divine element in humans). Not surprisingly, his arguments are diametrically opposed to Islamic doctrines on the nature of religion and government. My point is that Locke's (and our) argument for political emancipation and religious tolerance could be made only in a Christian context and a peculiarly English one at that; and cannot be made in other religious contexts to this day unless they share those fundamentally Christian views of the person, of religion and government.

Hindu, Mohammedan, Voodoo, Buddhist doctrines do not offer a way out of inequality. Christianity may not spell it all out exactly like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights but it has offered the only foundations and path to that declaration.

Soren .. in short you are saying that Christianity is the source/basis of freedom and equality?

If so .. how do you explain the insane rants of so called Christians like Sprint .. yes the Moderator of this forum .. who attempts to use Christianity to support RACISM and SEXISM?

Please don't come back with .. oh but he's a fool who plucks lonely verses out of context from the Bible in order to pathetically support his medieval BS .. because I've already exposed this on a number of occasions .. AND Sprint has had no comeback since. If anything he runs away like a scared chicken .. then comes back after a few hours with the strategy of starting another topic to try and hide the topic in which I made a fool of his inability to use the Bible in a debate.

In short .. he's a coward with not much intelligence or knowledge of the Bible. And I doubt he is even a Christian .. given the anti Biblical rubbish he is attempting to push on the Sprintuality forum .. which has nothing to do with Spirituality at all.

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« Last Edit: Mar 22^nd, 2011 at 9:04am by Lisa Jones »

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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muso

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Re: Are we all equal ?
Reply #86 - Mar 22^nd, 2011 at 9:22am

Soren wrote on Mar 21^st, 2011 at 10:40pm:

The idea of political emancipation that we take for granted was first worked out on the basis of Christianity, by John Locke. Europe had a devastating period of religiou wars and England had a couple of revolutions and civil wars and an executed king in the 17th century (beat the Frencg again, this time by ovr a 100 years).

Locke's arguments were based on Christian doctrines and the use of reason (a divine element in humans). Not surprisingly, his arguments are diametrically opposed to Islamic doctrines on the nature of religion and government. My point is that Locke's (and our) argument for political emancipation and religious tolerance could be made only in a Christian context and a peculiarly English one at that; and cannot be made in other religious contexts to this day unless they share those fundamentally Christian views of the person, of religion and government.

Hindu, Mohammedan, Voodoo, Buddhist doctrines do not offer a way out of inequality. Christiany may not spell it all out exactly like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights but it has offered the only foundations and path to that declaration.

Locke was one of many thinkers who had a great influence on the US Constitution and Bill of Rights, but he didn't have a monpoloy on secular and libertarian views. His Christian ideas were not exactly orthodox, and most of the rest of the founding fathers and other influences were either Deists or very far from orthodox. To say that the Age of Reason and Secularism sprung from mainstream Christianity is like saying that Satanism came from Christianity. Well I guess they both did in a way, and Christians at the time tarred Satanists, Atheists and Deists with the same brush.

Ironically, the founding fathers of that most Christian of countries mostly believed in the God of nature, some more vociferously than others. The beginning of the "Age of Reason" was more of a departure from Christianity rather than a legacy of it.

Most of the religions you mention are not champions of equality, and neither is Christianity, which was necessarily hierarchical. The one I highlighted is an exception. You could add Jainism (Jain Dharma) to that, and possibly Bahai.

The Bible doesn't even denounce slavery, and the advocates of slavery took great advantage of that fact. As a prominent advocate of slavery, so did John Locke.

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« Last Edit: Mar 22^nd, 2011 at 9:36am by muso »

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Are we all equal ?
Reply #87 - Mar 22^nd, 2011 at 9:22am

"In the Church of England in Britain, the mother church of the world’s 76 million Anglicans, women priests make up only about 16 per cent of full-time clergy. The church is also pushing towards the consecration of women bishops but there is significant dissent within church ranks. The international provinces – the national and regional units that comprise the global church – are still split. In Australia there are 360 women among a total of 3403 Anglican priests."

- extracted from Amadd's post

In Sydney .. I am happy to report that the Church of England is working on this issue RIGHT NOW .. and in an awesome way too!

Most of my friends from University are now Anglican ministers around Sydney. 2 of them are women .. the rest are men.

I almost joined them .. but was side tracked by marriage in my early 20's which saw me follow a very different path in life.

Where are they now? Doing the most awesome work in many types of ministries.

The trend is changing Amadd .. and more and more women are coming through the ranks (within the Anglican Church). It's just a matter of time before we see those stats equalize.

The Bible does not support sexism or racism .. and ANY person (like Sprint) who says otherwise has an ulterior motive/agenda, is lying and is attempting to lead people astray!

That is the truth of the matter!

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Are we all equal ? Reply #88 - Mar 22^nd, 2011 at 10:00am John Locke .. now there's an interesting philosopher ... where is the Philosophy forum again?
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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Are we all equal ?
Reply #89 - Mar 22^nd, 2011 at 10:05am

The utilitarians John S. Mill and Jeremy Bentham would have given the notion of equality a great push along. The basic formula was "happiness for the greatest number"; yet Mill did take issue with mobification because it has a tendency to squeeze out and ostracize brilliance.
Happiness for the greatest number reduces everyone to the same set of characteristics and therefore appeals to the common denominator. Thus equality is given a great boon.

But whether we are really equal requires that we having specific measuring sticks on what constitutes equality. Are we talking football? Running? Writing? Capacity for abstraction? Memory recall?

Each specialisation has its own skills and merits so therefore how do you compare equality across specialisations? Couldn't a measuring stick only be used within the specialisation, that is, couldn't you only compare one football player with another, and not, say, against a medical practitioner? Then, when comparing football player to football player don't we really see equality has little bearing? Why should the skilled football player be named an equal to a less skilled player?

All this talk of equality (and believe me I hear it, read it, and talk about it everyday because I tutor sociology) seems to be vague and riddled with envy and resentment. Why pull down what you are not? Why not use your opponent as a tool to compete with thus heightening your own skill sets in the process?

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