Bobby. wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 8:55pm:


You mean the Judaic GOD or the Talmudian entity?

oh you must meant the GOD that tried to drown the planet and everyone in it - except for a big wooden boat that some bloke built - what's his name again? Noel - thats right

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 6:35pm:



Abu,

In making such an assertion, you completely pass over the duality [of 'position'] within your own thought processes.




+++

When moslems have invaded non-moslem lands in the past, moslem conquests have been justified, and such land conquests are then always considered by every moslem to be forever immutable.
e.g.
All good moslems, consider that today, modern Spain REALLY IS THE LAWFUL PROPERTY OF MOSLEMS, because they once invaded and occupied Spain [before being later turfed out <-- that is a technical term].
When are moslems formally going to demand that Spain be returned to them Abu ????





Abu,

Moslem armies have attacked Israel in 1948, 1956, 1967 & 1973, trying to destroy the state of Israel.

On every occasion that they tried, they failed, miserably.

And the ISLAMISTS of the region, continue their war of attrition against the state of Israel, even to this day.

Abu,
Using the the very same moral justification which moslems themselves use [i.e. that using violence to seize the land, and property, of other is OK], isn't Israel, aren't the Jewish people, using the exact same moral justification as what moslems use, to secure, and hold, their small plot of land on the Mediterranean,  ???

Except, in the case of the Jewish people and Israel, the Jewish people and Israel have an extra 'component', in their justification to defend their nation, in that the Jewish people are merely defending what was, THEIR ANCIENT HOMELAND?

And that the Jewish people have merely seized back, land which was taken from them in the past [by the use of force] by others [including moslem hoards] ???





Abu,

Further, there is a concept in ISLAMIC culture, that nothing can happen in this world, except by Allah's will.

And moslems do actively promote such a concept, such a paradigm, within their own communities.

Ergo;
It should therefore, be clear to every moslem, that Allah does not want moslems to 'drive the Jews into the sea'.

Otherwise, 'logically', Allah would have brought that circumstance about, already, probably in 1948.

THEREFORE, tallowood's advice to moslems, in this OzPol forum;


'You [moslems] should submit to the will of your god and accept Israel's [existence] as your god's will.'



Abu,

As a good moslem, don't you believe, that moslems should accept the will of Allah ???

It is a fair question.

Yadda wrote on Mar 25^th, 2011 at 9:05am:




Abu,
Put simply, if moslems are justified in using violence to steal the land and property of non-moslems, aren't the non-moslems ALSO then justified, in using violence to 'steal' back their own land and property, from moslems ???




And isn't that exactly what the Jewish people have done???

They have taken back that which was taken from them, by a stronger moslem force.



Today, the Jewish people can certainly justify themselves in defending their nation, in that the Jewish people are now, merely defending that land which was, always, THEIR ANCIENT HOMELAND.

And the local moslems surrounding Israel, are now all in a tizzy, because they [the moslems] have found themselves powerless to impose the authority of ISLAM upon those Jewish people within their own Jewish land, a land which the Jewish people have seized back, from a people who stole it from them.

Poor things [i.e. the moslems].
/sarc off

Yadda,

Quote:


First and foremost, Muslims never took over a land and expelled the inhabitants, like the Jews have tried to do, and like the Russians for instance did in Chechnya, completely purging the land of its people. This kind of despicable inhuman action seems to be completely the domain of Westerners (and the Jews now being Westerners, it's no surprise they've followed suit).

Secondly that was in the age of empires. In those times if you did not annex adjoining lands, you were annexed, that was the simple cold harsh reality of the world and ALL states, without exception, in those times operated under those conditions. Your pretense that Muslims did so in a vacuum is really dishonest Yadda, but on par for your usual behaviour in such discussions.

Quote:


Another case of where Westerners completely cleansed an entire land of its inhabitants, thanks.

Quote:


Well if the Jews can 'save their seat' for 2000 years, I guess it's much more relevant for us to save our seat for 600 years isn't it? The West have set a dangerous precedent in Palestine, and I am quite sure one day the descendants of the West will curse their ancestors for brining such calamities upon them, when the scales are tipped back into balance.

Quote:


The West created the Arab nationalist entities, and then pitted them against their Zionist creation. The entire episode in history was a farce, staged to dupe the Muslim masses into believing the Zionist entity was invincible. It failed miserably, as the Muslims never adopted this view, except for the sold out secularist and atheist minority. In the next few decades as Muslims take back control of their lands, we'll see how the Zionists stand up against a true Muslim army. And believe me, they will be scrambling back to their real homes in Europe and America, long before it even takes off.

Quote:


By this stupendously simple and inaccurate misunderstanding of yours, people would never need to try and eat and drink either, as if it were the divine will, the food and drink would find its own way into their systems.

Again more dishonest drivel.

If you can't even have the basic intellectual integrity to quote my sentence in full, then you really do not deserve a response.

When you can start to be a little more honest, at least with yourself Lisa, feel free to participate.

P.S if you knew even your own ancestors' history, you'd know that when the Muslims took over Palestine, it was ruled by Byzantine Greeks, not Jews. It is your fellow Greco-Romans who expelled the Jews. By the time the Muslims arrived, the Jews were long gone.

Palestinians have suffered more than their fair share. However, this doesn't account for the fact than many terrorists against the West have been middle-class professionals with no personal experience of violence. And in the case of Osama, a member of the Saudi oligarchy.

The hot violence of war is different to the cold violence of planned suicide bombing. If I was a Palestinian, I'm sure I'd want to stick it up Moshe as far as I could.

The violence of a September 11, Madrid or London bombing, however, is a different phenomenon. It's a violence born of existential angst. It's a resentment against the hollow materialism of the West, a resentment many Westerners share. But instead of directing the struggle inwards - as the Prophet taught - the violence is directed outwards against empty targets and hollow enemies.

The cause of Palestine unites Muslims everywhere. I have a feeling, however, that if the problem of Palestine was solved tomorrow, people would be looking around for another cause to unite them.

Muslims are no different to anyone else. We should get busy living or get busy dying. For many, dying - matyrdom - is the easy way out.

It's much harder to be born again.

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 26^th, 2011 at 7:31pm:


NO they weren't...they were actions within a 'declared' conflict...

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 26^th, 2011 at 10:25pm:


Really?

The Hiroshima and Nagasaki attacks fit in rather nicely with the official definition of what a TERRORIST act is as given by the US military manuals.

I can only suggest that you look it up.