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The case against Islamic immigration (Read 41921 times)

Grey

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #150 - Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 3:43pm

bogarde73 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 3:23pm:

There you go again Grey. You're inclined to agree with most of the article you say but the rest of your piece is a carefully constructed naysay to any kind of Europe-style problem arising here, despite what Sheridan has documented as the problems of Lakemba etc already.... ...You are typical head-in-the-sand appeasement and it will all go away.
Well it won't.

No! You're not listening. I said quite clealy that MultiCulturalism is wrong, I agree with Sheridan.

I think that there is a lot to be said for the way things were done in the fifties actually. And let me just say that we don't discuss solutions nearly enough. There are as many possible ways of doing things as there are people. Any problem is an opportunity to be creative and a good solution is a win win arradication of problematic situations for all concerned.

As I understand it, and I haven't studied it, in the fifties all immigrants went to a camp to be assessed processed and assigned to a place they were needed. Why on earth are there immigrant ghettoes in Sydney when the Pilbarra is crying out for people?

What Australia needs to do is have a vision for the future. We are extremely well placed to be a nation of considerable influence, a good influence. We get bogged down by "that's the way it's always done around here" thinking.

http://www.jeffbridges.com/because.html

"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: The case against Islamic immigration Reply #151 - Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 3:52pm You're doing everything but recognise there is a problem. Well, is there a problem or not? And will it not get worse?
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Yadda

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #152 - Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 3:54pm

Grey wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 3:09pm:

Let me for the record say these things. And if I contradict myself, as Walt Whitman said. "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am legion, there are many of us living here."

This sounds very much like your are acknowledging the phenomenon of demon possession.

The United States of grey, perhaps ???

Sorry.

You are an atheist, and do not believe in spirit possession.
/sarc off

Quote:

I don't think that there's any reason to not accept 'economic refugees'. Things have to be extreme before people will leave their homelands for whatever reason. If it was a simple matter of 'being better off' Scotland and the North of England would have emptied into London decades ago and London would've emptied into Australia in the sixties. The vast majority of people will not leave no matter how bad things get.

No ???

Why can't, won't these people [who claim they only want a better life] stay, to 'nation build' their own homelands ???

And why shouldn't we expect them to ???

Especially when many of these 'economic refugees' exhibit extreme intolerance of our culture, and, when many of these 'economic refugees' exhibit criminal tendencies, which they justify, in our courts, by claiming that we [Australians] should 'accommodate' their nature, and their cultural 'difficulties'.

Quote:

Australia isn't served by damaging people psychologically before letting them out into the community. Nobody in their right mind would riot while waiting to get residency approval without feeling that this was the only way to be noticed enough to get anything happening at all before dieing of old age.

You said;

"Nobody in their right mind would riot while waiting to get residency approval..."

Exactly.

IMO, the truth is that ISLAM is a deceptive and violent philosophy, a cult, which creates a mental pathology, in those human beings who choose to embrace it.

That mental pathology which afflicts all good moslems, is so all encompassing, that all moslems deny any accountability for the consequences of their own choices.

ISLAM clearly teaches, inculcates, within the moslem psyche, that moslems are the victims of a SATANIC conspiracy against them, perpetrated by non-moslems.

ISLAM teaches, inculcates within moslems, a justification, to always place all blame for the consequences of moslem violent actions, upon non-moslems.

e.g.
Witness, the very latest moslem atrocity, in the UN compound, within Afghanistan.

Moslems will insist, that all blame for this murderous incident, lays with others, FOR PROVOKING MOSLEMS TO VIOLENCE.

Moslems never, ever, accept any responsibility, for their own wrong doing.

Always, moslems blame shift onto others, for every misfortune which befalls them [due to the own life choices].

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Soren

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #153 - Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 3:55pm

Grey wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 3:02am:

Soren wrote on Apr 1^st, 2011 at 9:42pm:

Sneering and jeering is for morons. You could not have your faith in reason without Christianity. You couldn't have your history, literature, philosophy, all your mental furniture without it. You wouln't be you without Christianity.
Don't believe in it. But when you sneer at it, when you jeer at it, you are the manic idiot sticking out his tongue at the mirror.

Oh dear, you do have it bad don't you? I assure you Reason, History, Literature and joined up thinking all existed and would've continued to develop without religious interference. For instance neither spelt a miraculous natural hybrid discovered and cultivated near Jericho nor the subsequent further hybridization which occurred in Turkey 10,000 years ago to produce the wheat civilization is fed on needed the church. Neither did the wheel's, (and axles) inventor 3,500 years BCE, who managed to nut out the problems all on his/her own. Where does literature start ? The 'Epic of Gilgamesh' (2000 BCE) Or perhaps to the more poetic 16,000 years before that at Lascaux.

Ascribing human enlightenment to religion is just daft. The cart is pulling a dead horse up the mountain.

Your particular way of thinking and seeing is not based on Mesopotamian agriculture, the wheel or cave paintings.
It is the prouduct of the last 500 years of European civilisation. (that in turn of course was shaped by the previous 2500 years in very obvious and conscious ways.)
You could not think what you think without Christianity. Almost all of your rebellion against it is essentially based on Christian ethics. The church is mercilessly flogged not because it teaches Christian ethics but because it does not live up to it. Social justice is applied Christian ethics. The very idea of equality is before the law (because off equality before god) is unthinkable outside Christianity.
All western political ideologies have developed out of engagement with Christianity. It is complete nonsense to pretend that it is now 'overcome' or somhow irrelevant. All non-western political stream have been the adaptations of Western ideas to local conditions.

Third world countries that were colonies once are full of resentment against the west beause their way of life has to adapt to Western ethics and they cannot cope with it. Aboriginese, Africans, Asian who resist Western ethics are failed people and states. Japan and Korea are two examples of non western countries that have adapted consciously to the west keeping of their culture what they could. China is another, although it still carries the burden of a failed European idea (Marxism).

The Arabs are an excellent example of being unable to adapt to Western ways, almost ex officio, because they recognise that western ways are Christian ways.

Being an atheist in a 'Christian' country is vastly different to being an atheist in a Muslim one. In the former, they let you live, for starters. So for an atheist like you to say that all religions are the same is nuttiness of the first order.

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Grey

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #154 - Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 3:58pm

bogarde73 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 3:52pm:

You're doing everything but recognise there is a problem.
Well, is there a problem or not? And will it not get worse?

It's implicit in my posts I recognise a problem. Most problems get worse unless they're attended to. Do you recognise that there might be a solution?

"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: The case against Islamic immigration Reply #155 - Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 4:04pm Oh yes there's a solution. Prevention. Were you hoping I'd say a Final Solution?
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Yadda

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #156 - Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 4:11pm

Grey wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 3:58pm:

bogarde73 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 3:52pm:

You're doing everything but recognise there is a problem.
Well, is there a problem or not? And will it not get worse?

It's implicit in my posts I recognise a problem. Most problems get worse unless they're attended to.

Do you recognise that there might be a solution?

Absolutely.

The problem....

ISLAM is a political tyranny, and ISLAM promotes, a vicious [un-reformable] violent political tyranny.

And, ISLAM will not change.

What must change, is how the West 'interacts' with moslems.

We, the West, must choose to separate ourselves from ISLAM, and from moslems.

Why so?

ISLAM is totally incompatible with Western ideals of democracy, freedom, justice.

Let moslems stew, in their own juices.

Many moslems would then see their error, and abandon ISLAM.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Grey

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #157 - Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 4:12pm

bogarde73 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 4:04pm:

Oh yes there's a solution. Prevention.
Were you hoping I'd say a Final Solution?

Actually no, I didn't hope or expect that. Look if Australia banned all entry to Muslims, what would people call that? 'The cross Australia policy'? If all other Western countries are taking their share of Muslim refugees but Australia, the most underpopulated, underdeveloped, land mass on Earth, refuses. Does that look like a tenable position to you?

"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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Grey

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #158 - Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 4:16pm

Quote:

Yadda - This sounds very much like your are acknowledging the phenomenon of demon possession.

Yes Yadda well spotted. As I said that was a quote originally by Walt Whitman who was dealing with a question accusing him of contradiction and also haveing a bit of fun with church doctrines at the same time.

"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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Yadda

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #159 - Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 4:19pm

Grey wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 4:12pm:

bogarde73 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 4:04pm:

Oh yes there's a solution. Prevention.
Were you hoping I'd say a Final Solution?

Actually no, I didn't hope or expect that. Look

if Australia banned all entry to Muslims, what would people call that?

I would call it sanity.

In the face of a philosophy,

which openly promotes views like this ---->

June 26, 2006
The roots of Islamism
".....Islamists believe in the re-ordering of society to secure total submission to a narrow, puritan and fundamentalist interpretation of Islam......
That cleansing process must be accomplished by suicidal violence, because, in the words of Islamism's most influential thinker, Sayyid Qutb, "the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood.".....
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/michael_gove/article679544.e...

And this, from the Koran

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme. "
Koran 9.111

v. 9.111, in its guarantee of paradise to those who "fight in His cause, and slay and are slain" for Allah, is clearly encouraging the martyrdom of moslems, in 'the Cause of Allah'.
Their reward, is paradise.
Suicide bombing, anyone?

« Last Edit: Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 4:25pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Grey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5341 Gender:	Re: The case against Islamic immigration Reply #160 - Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 4:20pm Oh look I reached 100 and became a full member. Now I can relax, I hated being a junior
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Grey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5341 Gender:	Re: The case against Islamic immigration Reply #161 - Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 4:25pm Quote: In the face of a philosophy, which openly promotes views this this ----> May the gods help us if we are all held to account for the thoughts and actions of the most extreme members of our communities.
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Yadda

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #162 - Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 4:35pm

Grey wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 4:25pm:

Quote:

In the face of a philosophy, which openly promotes views this this ---->

May the gods help us if we are all held to account for the thoughts and actions of the most extreme members of our communities.

But those are not the thoughts and actions of the most extreme members of moslem communities.

The are the thoughts and actions of good moslems.

All good moslems hold such views, and are motivated, by such views.

To not be so motivated, means that they themselves are declaring their own apostasy [rebellion against Allah], and that they are not true moslems.

There are numerous verses in the Koran, which castigate and threaten, those moslems [those moslem 'hypocrites'], who abandon their loyalty to Allah.

+++

In this thread, Grey made the claim....
Quote:

"My only interest is in finding true things."

You are a liar Grey.

You clearly refuse to 'face up to' objective truth, relating to moslems, and ISLAM.

You are averse to truth.

« Last Edit: Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 4:40pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Equitist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9632 NSW	Re: The case against Islamic immigration Reply #163 - Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 4:42pm Grey wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 4:20pm: Oh look I reached 100 and became a full member. Now I can relax, I hated being a junior Congrats - though I'm not sure that you should be too happy about the connotations that go with being known as a "full member"...
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djrbfm

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #164 - Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 4:48pm

hi,
went down the road from my house to burwood, nsw, road last night.
as i walked my usual route, i could hear arabic music - not the usual.
hmmmmmm - i thought - hashish pipes?
not a bad thing.
walking further down, i realised it (the sound) was coming from Sidnee's cafe.
woaaa!
as i got closer, i was struck with just how beautiful is music was/is.
walking thru the cafe, i was tempted to stay. unusual. to say the least.
BUT, certain tables of ppl caught my eye, and, guess wot! they welcomed me!!!!!
i just had to do the thumbs up thing. the ladies were dressed head to toe, but it DID NOT STOP THEM from being very friendly.
sometimes, the hottest have the coolest exterior.
Sidnees's Cafe, i salute you. you will, if given the chance, bridge a grap in social
relations here in Burwood.
we need lotz more of this integrity if Australia is to survive.
they are willing, as i'm willing.
j.

these are just normal ppl, having fun.
at least they know how to.
btw, i'm anglo, and 62 years old.
and i'm totally sick of the gov'ts this fine country is wearing nowadays.
this is really a dictatorship.

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