If anyone asked me to reveal IF I am an extremist, and I was one, and the prize for lying was great enough, I'd lie.  I chortle at this concept that you can SCREEN out extremists, like blowing the chaff off grain.  Certainly an anarchist knows that control is an illusion.  Screening is a silly political sham.

I had this other smile when, I think it was FREEDIVER asked if economic problems should be solved for the sake of admitting some... anyone.  Doesn't matter who.  The crux of the biscuit is SHOULD ECONOMIC PROBLEMS BE SOLVED?  Can they be?  If they can be, How can they be?  We wonder, IS there ENOUGH to go around?  hmmm.  I suppose that depends on who you ask, doesn't it?

Who do you want to allow to immigrate, pals?  Billionaires?  Millionaires?  Thousandaires?  Christians?  Jews?  Taoists?  People with curly hair, or straight?  Brown eyes, or blue? 

You can pretend that you have a country with a set of values, but you don't.  You have a rule book, but most of us don't worry too much about our legal positions as we go through our days, weeks, months, lives.  Sometimes we know that we have been a little criminal, and we tell a pal, but we don't step up for punishment, and our pals don't suggest that we do, either.

Britains are muttering, screaming, whingeing and crying over the arrival of Poles who "live on the dole" or don't do good work, or pick their noses in public, or something.  It's wonderful having easy targets for discontent, who are not elected.

Wait!  Who said what about DISMANTLING democracy and attacking personal freedoms?  Sounds like G.W. Bush-speak, to me.  Let's all try to remember that democracy is an ACTIVE and evolving state/State.  It's political, not religious.  You don't HAVE to let religion into political discussions.  If you do, you are corrupting the politics.

aintcha?

Grey:

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How so?

Soren:

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You don't think democracy and personal freedom are important values? Do you think we left some out? Meat pies perhaps?

Spiny:

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So we should open the door to welcome rapists, murderers, thieves etc because they might sneak in anyway?

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I can refer you to quotes from muslims right here on this forum if it would help.

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Muslims like to let religion dictate their politics. In fact they don't see any distinction between them

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Are you suggesting we have never had democracy or freedom?

ay Australians go to North America because they figure they should be beloved for their accents?

I want to know how a country would go about "Welcoming" rapists, murderers and thieves.  I might have added that last category.  I think that the only way to WELCOME those people is to invite an ARMY.  Personally, I think that inviting armies is not a good idea.  I've never travelled and gotten into a government part of an airport and seen big banners welcoming criminals.  I think that the flowers and fancy booze welcomes are mostly reserved for corporate arrivals, and members of relic monarchies.  Those welcomes don't have anything to do with US, and we only pay for them.

FREEDIVER, I'm implying a lot more than I'm saying, in an attempt to avoid being nasty and over-bearing.  You can check back and see that I said democracy and freedom are not VALUES.  Now, wait a second, I didn't say you don't value those things, but they are not "Universal Shared Values".  And they REALLY AREN'T if they are specific to AUSTRALIA. 

Everyone's mother says that they are special and unique, but that's just what mothers say.  It's best to let it go.

You have freedom.  Everyone does.  You may not exercise it, because you believe that you welcome rapists and murders, but you make decisions about the freedoms you exercise, because nobody would stop you, or could stop you, if you decided to take a dump in the dairy aisle in the market.  And, you would probably have CONSEQUENCES, but those would only attempt to discourage further executions of your freedom.  I don't have to give you permission.  You are free to choose.

spiny mendoza wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2011 at 5:44am:


Siddiq Conlon from Sharia 4 Australia wants to replace democracy with Islamic rule.

"One day Australia will be ruled by Sharia,no doubt" he declares."That is why non muslims are worried,because they know one day they wont be able to drink their beer,they wont be able to eat pork and they wont be able to do their homosexual acts (what about muslims Smacking little boys- google bacha bazi,is having sex with little boys not considered homosexual in Islam?) because one day they know they will be controlled".
Read more from Siddiq here  www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/full-bred-aussie-with-a-longing-for-shari...

Hizb-ut-Tahrir  have also called for sharia law in Australia.
From their website-
"Hizb ut tahrir is a POLITICAL party whose ideology is Islam,so politics is its work and Islam is its ideology.
Hizb ut tahrir is a political group and not a priestly one."
Go have a look at their website  what i cited above comes from the about section in the bottom right hand of the page  www.hizb-australia.org

It appears Abu Rashid the moderator from the Islam section supports sharia law for Australia going by his comments on Siddiq Conlon in the aussiemuslims forum.
This is what abu said about sharia law-
"Yes we must deliever the message about the oneness of Allah,but also we need to promote and make PROPAGANDA for sharia"
"We need to promote Islam as a viable way of life,and a solution to the problems the world faces.Merely restricting our dawah (ganda) to speaking about the oneness of Allah does not present the full picture of Islam,and actually risks us falling into limiting Islam to becoming just a spiritual system like the jews and christians"
"In short we should not retract from promoting the political aspects of Islam,we should excel more in it,but we just need to do it in a very targeted and strategic manner"
Read Abu's comments here  www.aussiemuslims.com/forums/showpost.php?p=484299&postcount=33


Islam is more than just a religion it is Political as well there is no separation of mosque and state with Islam.

If muslims want to make Islam political then we should engage them on all aspects of Islam just like we do with every other political parties policies,why should Islam be exempt from scruitiny if they want to make their belief political?

Conceptually, those two things don't go together.  Democracy implies loss of autocracy to the rule of a majority.  Worse, it can mean a perceived majority, or a to a wacky representative.

Thanks Baron. I have asked Abu about it.

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By letting them immigrate.

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Fair enough. If they were universal, we wouldn't have to worry about immigrants trying to destroy our democracy and freedom. But they are not unique to Australia, or 'the west'.

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Are you trying to say this is a bad thing?

Except we know that if & when they get to a critical mass here there will be big trouble.
Only a blind fool would be in denial about that.

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Yeah true enough, only don't hold me to an Anarchist party line. I'm the sort of Anarchist who's pragmatic on occasion, sometimes even Conservative. I might believe that money has outlived its usefulness and a globalised world should have a globalised citizenship; but I don't believe in scaring the children unnecessarily. I believe that Anarchism involves consensus amongst all of a communities reasonable people.

As far as screening goes, yes people can lie. But the 'screening' process gets the lie on paper. I believe in quickly giving all immigrants provisional citizenship for five years and kicking out ratbags whose aim and actions is to undermine the society they 'pretended' to want to join.