Australian Politics Forum - The case against Islamic immigration

Baronvonrort

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #300 - Apr 9^th, 2011 at 3:41pm

spiny mendoza wrote on Apr 8^th, 2011 at 2:21am:

Jaykaye, I agree that most of the impact of policies surrounding fear of terrorists is dumb and aimed at fostering fear and acquiescence to a more authoritarian presence.

Islamic terror is just one reason people dislike Islam.
9/11 WTC came down after the second attempt by muslims.
Bali Bombing
Beslan massacre
Mumbai Massacre
London bombing
Madrid bombing
Fort Hood Massacre
Shoe bomber
Undie bomber
Just to name a few and in 2010 the Pakistani Cleric Qadri issued a 600 page fatwa outlawing Islamic terror despite the near decade long denials from muslims about Islamic terror.
Google Qadri Fatwa and see what you get,about 600 pages long.

In 2010 Pakistan probably topped the list for deaths from Islamic terror and thats a country thats 98% muslim so people dont take much notice of 2010 bodycount exceeding 9/11 or US deaths in 2 wars.

In Australia we have over 20 people in jail for terror chages where the plot was foiled.

Islamic terror is not the only repulsive thing with Islam which is more of a political ideology than religion.

Muslims dont even make up 2% of the population in Australia yet they have been calling for Sharia law for over 1 year.
I pointed out some examples in a previous post of sevearl muslims calling for sharia law.
www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1300943110/186#186

Last years open day at Lakemba Mosque also saw the desire for a separate legal system running parallel to ours to accomodate Islamic beliefs and they say they just want it for family matters.
Read what the official line from Lakemba mosque was here www.smh.com.au/national/muslim-leader-wants-elements-of-sharia-in-australia-2010...

They said they would be happy for Islamic custody and divorce laws that take womens rights back to the 7th century.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Yadda

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #301 - Apr 9^th, 2011 at 3:47pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2011 at 1:16pm:

....what is the reason you would deny people religious freedom?

ABSURDITY, UPON ABSURDITY.

'Religious freedoms' must be respected.

Even when one aspect of the 'religious freedom' which moslems would claim for themselves, is the right to murder those who 'insult' ISLAM ???

Q.
When does 'religious freedom' end?

And criminality begin ???

Example #1 - UK

25 May 2007
Muslim cleric Sheikh Abdullah al-Faisal, who has been deported from the UK....
"......Al-Faisal spent years travelling the UK preaching racial hatred urging his audience to kill Jews, Hindus and Westerners.
......he argued his talks came from the Koran and if he was on trial so was the holy text."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6692243.stm

What an indignity this devout muslim sufferered, being expelled from the UK just for exercising his religious freedom [.......i.e. for urging muslims to kill the 'enemies' of Allah].

Example #2 - Turkey

20 Dec 2005
Jihad is 'Muslim obligation'
A lawyer defending al Qaida-linked suspects standing trial for the 2003 suicide bombings in Istanbul told a court that jihad, or holy war, was an obligation for Muslims and his clients should not be prosecuted.
"If you punish them for this, tomorrow, will you punish them for fasting or for praying?"
.....The November 2003 blasts targeted two synagogues, the British Consulate and the local headquarters of the London-based HSBC bank, killing 58 people.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2005/12/jihad-is-muslim-obligation.html

Example #3 - Australia

"Five Australian jihadists convicted - Sister, 'its not fair' "

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/15/2819965.htm
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/02/australia-5-jihadists-motivated-by-intolerant-...

"..The sister for one of the convicted men said...that the sentence is not fair to her community or religion."

Her brother liked to watch videos of moslems beheading non-moslems, and now he can't,
...for a very long time.
And it's just not fair!!

Australians laws are so unfair , not allowing moslems to exercise their sanctified 'religious freedom' to kill Australians, because Australians 'insult' ISLAM, by resisting the Jihad [the spread of ISLAM by violent means].

What indignities devout moslems AROUND THE WORLD must suffer, being frustrated and oppressed, just for trying to exercise their religious freedom in pursuing their religious right to kill the 'enemies' of Allah.
/sarc off

+++

ISLAM is a criminal compact among moslems, to wage a violent 'religious' war against ALL non-moslems ['unbelievers'].

In my estimation, all good moslems **do understand** what their religious **OBLIGATION** is, to ISLAM and to fellow moslems.

Those assertions may be uncomfortable to some among us, but are based in TRUTH.

All good moslems claim the 'religious freedom', to murder those who do not believe as they believe.

The Jihad against non-moslems is justified, within the Koran....

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #302 - Apr 9^th, 2011 at 4:11pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 9^th, 2011 at 3:11pm:

Grey wrote on Apr 9^th, 2011 at 1:59pm:

spiny mendoza wrote on Apr 9^th, 2011 at 2:35am:

hmmmm. Grey, I'm not comfortable with your juxtaposition, there. The Omagh bombing is comparible only by virtue of the fact that it went BOOM.

I disagree, 'terrorist' bombs are not primarily about terror. It does OBL no good if people in New York are distraught. Terrorist acts are designed as ignition points, they want to fight, they want people they see as themselves {fellow muslims/catholics} to join the fight. They're after a domino effect not a bonfire.

Terror is really just a bully saying do what we want and we will stop bombing/blowing you up.

If you dont appease a muslim they will claim you oppress them.

This is exactly so, imo.

It is the 'justification' for all violence, against the victims of moslem violence.

ISLAM is a deceptive and violent philosophy, a cult, which, imo, creates a mental pathology, in those human beings who choose to embrace it.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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spiny mendoza

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #303 - Apr 9^th, 2011 at 4:17pm

That's right! If you don't appease them, they will claim that you want to take over their country and remove their freedoms!

It's like your mother told you when you got teased in school, isn't it? She said, They're just jealous! Then you grew up and sometimes, when you examined yourself as honestly as you could bear to be, you saw that you were no great shakes, and not worth much jealousy, and then you found out that politicians and hucksters would repeat your mother's lines, and felt better, because you figure that you still have plenty to covet.

She said you were special. You aren't. My mother said it to me, too. We aren't special. We have a bunch of disposable crap, but it's just crap.

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spiny mendoza New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30	Re: The case against Islamic immigration Reply #304 - Apr 9^th, 2011 at 4:25pm oh yeah, THEY'RE ALL THE SAME and you are exactly like ME!!!!! YOU will respond EXACTLY like I will, to all things that you perceive as negative. Just exactly like me, because we are the SAME: non-Muslims.
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freediver

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #305 - Apr 9^th, 2011 at 4:41pm

Quote:

or that symbols of male oppression of females should be tolerated

Is this the reason? It was hard to tell. Are you suggesting that we should ban symbols depending on how people who disagree with something associated with that symbol interpret the symbol?

Quote:

Knocking on doors and accosting people on the street for one thing.

So it should be illegal for people to knock on doors? When you say accosted, are you saying it should be illegal for people to physically assault you? If so, it is already illegal and not really part of proselytising. Perhaps you mean it should be illegal for people to talk to you on the street? It seems that all of your justifcations/excuses for bannig things rely entirely on how you interpret other people's actions rather than on what they actually do.

Quote:

And I don't think the path to spiritual enlightenment should be sold like toothpaste do you?

Of course not. Nor should it be legislated as you suggest.

Quote:

These righteous leftards continue to stick up for something they are clueless about and if they knew the truth they would realise how morally bankrupt they are in defending Islam.

Perhaps they are defending a woman's right to choose for herself what to wear rather than having ignorant men choose for her who see her as nothing more than a pawn in a greater conflict.

Quote:

When does 'religious freedom' end?

And criminality begin ???

let me guess. When a woman covers her face?

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Yadda

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #306 - Apr 9^th, 2011 at 4:49pm

spiny mendoza wrote on Apr 9^th, 2011 at 4:25pm:

oh yeah, THEY'RE ALL THE SAME and you are exactly like ME!!!!! YOU will respond EXACTLY like I will, to all things that you perceive as negative. Just exactly like me, because we are the SAME: non-Muslims.

spiny mendoza,

If you want to look inside the minds of good moslems, you should seek out and read some of the ISLAMIC texts which motivate good moslems...

Quote:

Here, for example, are two very illuminating passages from the canonical Life of Mohammed by Ibn Ishaq, as translated by A. Guillaume, and a third passage, from the earliest known Muslim historian.

Ishaq: 204 - "'Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man [Muhammad]?' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.'"

Ishaq:231 - "Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders."

And here is Al-Tabari, a very early Muslim historian, in book 9, chapter or section 69, reporting words that Muslims believe to have been said by Mohammed himself - "Killing infidels is a small matter to us".

These texts are not fossils from a distant past. They are not dead letters. They are still 'live' and carry tremendous weight in the imagination and practice of many Muslims around the world.
...DDA

Google it.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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spiny mendoza New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30	Re: The case against Islamic immigration Reply #307 - Apr 10^th, 2011 at 4:44pm That's just what we do, Yadda, we look for justification for our prejudices and fears. Being just like you, I'll ignore the fact that written words are interpretable. I will be literal, just like you! And you will develop a healthy disrespect for laws, just like me.
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Soren

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #308 - Apr 11^th, 2011 at 9:31am

An interesting and wide ranging case against Muslim immigration here:
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2011/03/muslim-immigration-into-uk-part-one.ht...

Not exactly Michelle Grattan but all the more interesting for that.

Country of Origin Rank (1 to 26) Employed (%) Unemployed (%) Economically Inactive (%)
United States       8    81    3    16
U.K.       10    78    4    18
Iran[7] 22    51 12    36
Pakistan 23    45    5    50
Bangladesh    24    44    8    48

Turkey    25    41    7    52
Somalia    26    19    10    71

Next, we have the estimated gross annual income per economically active member of the group. The five countries above are still clustered down the bottom, as follows (UK and US are included for comparison):

Country of Origin Rank(1 to 26) Gross Income(£)
United States       1       37,250
U.K.    15 21,250
Iran    18 19,450
Pakistan       21       16,450
Bangladesh 24 15,550
Turkey 25 14,750
Somalia 26 13,700

These five low-performing groups taken together will a) be overwhelmingly Muslim, and b) include a large majority of all first-generation Muslim immigrants in the UK. And it is fairly clear from the above that: a) their labour-force participation rates are woeful, and that b) those of them in employment are, statistically speaking, operating down at the low-skilled, low added-value end of the employment spectrum. Is it conceivable that such groups are making a net contribution to the prosperity of the British people?

...

The employment data are as follows (with white British included for comparison):

Ethnicity Employed (%) Unemployed (%) Economically Inactive (%)
White British 79    4    18
Pakistani    49    7    43
Bangladeshi    45    9    45

By way of illustrating the very little net contribution Pakistanis make and the non-contribution of the Bangladeshis to the UK.

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spiny mendoza

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #309 - Apr 11^th, 2011 at 4:01pm

I don't love statistics, not because they are not interesting, but because they are often published without the tests given and by people who really don't know how to interpret them.

So, you say that immigrants often work at menial jobs and for menial pay? Big surprise! Does that benefit the country that they immigrated to? You betcha, if it's a capitalist country, cheap labour is welcome.

I don't know what else you were trying to prove, and I think that must mean that you didn't prove it.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48862 At my desk.	Re: The case against Islamic immigration Reply #310 - Apr 11^th, 2011 at 7:05pm The economically incative bit is interesting. Who falls into that category?
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Grey

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #311 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 1:47am

Quote:

freediver - Perhaps they are defending a woman's right to choose for herself what to wear rather than having ignorant men choose for her who see her as nothing more than a pawn in a greater conflict.

So you're saying the burqha is the fashion choice that all muslim women take, (in Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, et al)? Yeah right.

I must say that for somebody ostensibly on the left my tolerance for symbols of oppression is low. I'm amazed that Neo Nazis are allowed to wave swastikas as well. I'm amazed the RC church was allowed to continue after the inquisition Grin

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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Soren

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #312 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 12:52pm

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 2:33pm:

Quote:

I don't want Mullah's like that in Australia and they are here.

So you support immigration restrictions?

I do. And so do the French, bless 'em. No more 'no more borders' for the riff raff:

A British Muslim radical has been permanently banned from France as the country steps up security before the introduction of a nationwide burka ban tomorrow.
Anjem Choudary, head of the outlawed Islam4UK which advocates Sharia law, was turned back as he tried to join an illegal protest in Paris on Saturday.

Officials served Mr Choudary with a legal notice informing him that the French Interior Ministry was banning him permanently.

If they can do that to EU citizens in the home of liberty, egality and fraternity, I see no reason why it can't be done to non-citizens in god's own.

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Grey

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #313 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 1:29pm

Soren wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 12:52pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 2:33pm:

Quote:

I don't want Mullah's like that in Australia and they are here.

So you support immigration restrictions?

I do. And so do the French, bless 'em. No more 'no more borders' for the riff raff:

A British Muslim radical has been permanently banned from France as the country steps up security before the introduction of a nationwide burka ban tomorrow.
Anjem Choudary, head of the outlawed Islam4UK which advocates Sharia law, was turned back as he tried to join an illegal protest in Paris on Saturday.

Officials served Mr Choudary with a legal notice informing him that the French Interior Ministry was banning him permanently.

If they can do that to EU citizens in the home of liberty, egality and fraternity, I see no reason why it can't be done to non-citizens in god's own.

What are you banging on about Soren? Of course France and every other country including Australia has a list of banned individuals.

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48862 At my desk.	Re: The case against Islamic immigration Reply #314 - Apr 18^th, 2011 at 7:17pm Off-Topic replies have been moved to this Topic.
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