Australian Politics Forum - The case against Islamic immigration

Grey

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #30 - Mar 26^th, 2011 at 1:36am

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Excellent summing up of the Australian ethos Soren.

Really? Just smelt like Team spirit to me. Every now and then throughout everybodies history, some tosser and or mentally disturbed person, wants to become the ruler quickly. The best way to achieve this is through whipping up some identity politics. US - versus - the Jews, the blacks, the Asians, it doesn't matter, they can even whip some fervour up against the women. Racism and Nationalism are blood brothers and no good ever came out of either one.

Most decent reasonable people, the vast majority, no matter where in the world they live, want nothing more than to raise a family in peace and security, to feel that their lives have had meaning by contributing to the common good, and to have had enough time for the fun of food, the arts and smacking.

People like Moshe and Munir are my heroes.

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2008/s2167985.htm

There is no great overriding Australian ethos. There are just people who agree about what they'd like it to be. If there's a competition to dominate and control there shouldn't be.

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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Amadd

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #31 - Mar 26^th, 2011 at 1:51am

There is no such thing as a "moderate muslim".
You should get over it.

If/when push comes to shove, every single "moderate muslim" will side with the extremists...that's just fact.

Either they submit themselves to our (conquering) democracy, and work with us to keep our dictators in line, or we need to fight against them.
And we will need to fight hard...make no mistake.

Any conglomeration of cultures will end in an ultimate sacrifice for the fought out democracy that I will kill and die for.
And I will continue to do so, even though they have usurped our weapons...I have many more weapons than them.

That doesn't change the fact that I will kill and die for my nation in the name of democracy.
I will kill and I will die for what I believe in.
That's the order, no compromise.

But seeing that I'm not forced to live here...I'll catchyu later suckers.
At least my grandfather gave me the wealth to live elsewhere in a more ordinary existence for a simple man with simple needs.
I'll bypass Australia as a failed experiment.i

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« Last Edit: Mar 26^th, 2011 at 2:00am by Amadd »

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freediver

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #32 - Mar 26^th, 2011 at 9:42am

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Racism and Nationalism are blood brothers and no good ever came out of either one.

This is about religion and politics, not race.

Quote:

Most decent reasonable people, the vast majority, no matter where in the world they live, want nothing more than to raise a family in peace and security, to feel that their lives have had meaning by contributing to the common good, and to have had enough time for the fun of food, the arts and smacking.

I think you'll find that most people want far more than that. Even a slave can have that.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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bogarde73

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #33 - Mar 26^th, 2011 at 11:39am

Grey says we have to let Islam in, it will damage our standing if we don't.
What will it damage if we do? If we keep letting them in, isn't it a fact that eventually - not in my lifetime but maybe in my grandson's - they will become the majority as they will in Europe?
I find this a ridiculous argument steeped in appeasement.
As John Howard said, we will decide who comes here!

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Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism.

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Soren

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #34 - Mar 26^th, 2011 at 12:29pm

Amadd wrote on Mar 26^th, 2011 at 1:31am:

Quote:

Australia has an older constitution than almost all European, (and Asian, African, Latin American) countries. It is 'young', constitution wise, only if compared to the AMericans and the British (who don't have one).

The day that we have access to our constitution is the day that your comment will become valid.

Grow a brain...puhleaase Soren!!

You are the opitamy of a contradiction in terms...an oxynoron.

We have no access to our constitution you idiot.

You mean it is not open access like a fridge full of beer (ie latest fads)?
But this is a very good thing. The constitution is not for the pursuit of party political aims. It can be changed if there is bi-partisan support for the change. No government can change it, no matter how big a majority they get in an election. This is excellent.

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Soren

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #35 - Mar 26^th, 2011 at 12:35pm

Grey wrote on Mar 26^th, 2011 at 1:36am:

If there's a competition to dominate and control there shouldn't be.

The boys at the Mooney Ponds Flaming Sword of Jihad Community Outreach Centre (Benbrinka Group) haven't yet heard of this lovely Anglican idea. Nor have the ones seeking martyrdom at Holsworthy or those who travel overseas to train and agitate for jihad and the caliphate.
They should be told.

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Grey

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #36 - Mar 26^th, 2011 at 12:57pm

bogarde73 wrote on Mar 26^th, 2011 at 11:39am:

Grey says we have to let Islam in, it will damage our standing if we don't.
What will it damage if we do? If we keep letting them in, isn't it a fact that eventually - not in my lifetime but maybe in my grandson's - they will become the majority as they will in Europe?
I find this a ridiculous argument steeped in appeasement.
As John Howard said, we will decide who comes here!

Why will they become the majority? Do they offer a better way of life? Of course not.

In fact people have feared newcomers since the begining; both in Australia and in Britain before. Hindhu's and Sikh's tried hard to hang on to the oppressive mores of their religion in Britain but lost their children to Liberal Democratic ways. They still have coool weddings though. Waves of immigrants and a culture that adopted the good and threw out the bad is what made Britain Great. Britain is the mongrel mob of Europe and Australia follows that same path as did the USA.

The very best societies humanity has ever produced have been cosmopolitan ones, typified by London, Istanbul, New York, Toronto amd Melbourne. Afghanistan was a moderate muslim society. Not a Burkha in sight up until the Wahabist funded and inspired Taliban. Most Muslims are moderate to the extent you wouldn't know what their religion was unless you asked, when, as with Christians, they'll tick that box out of habit.

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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bogarde73

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #37 - Mar 26^th, 2011 at 1:36pm

Why will they become the majority?
Didn't you read my opening post about population trends? This is not my fantasy.
And once they are the majority, everybody else will have to bend to their will. Can't you see that?
In Germany, where the Turks have been for 50, 60 years, many of them refuse to integrate.
In your precious England the same. The Islamic Republic of Yorkshire is a nation state waiting to happen in the future.
Those are just the trends. In the meantime we have an ongoing battle with a terrorist threat, with demands for this that & the other to be changed to suit their customs, with trying to police activities which we find abhorrent, such as child marriages in secret, female circumcision and the like. As mentioned previously, the Germans have had to pass legislation outlawing the kind of thing I referred to in my OP. It is one thing to legislate though, it is another thing to prevent.
I have it on good authority that the University of Western Sydney closed its Christian chapel and gave the space to the muslims for a prayer room.
Why should we put up with any of it? I'm sorry Grey, but you are another of the rose-bespectacled brigade, not that you're alone.

Keep them out!

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Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism.

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Soren

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #38 - Mar 26^th, 2011 at 3:58pm

Grey wrote on Mar 26^th, 2011 at 12:57pm:

bogarde73 wrote on Mar 26^th, 2011 at 11:39am:

Grey says we have to let Islam in, it will damage our standing if we don't.
What will it damage if we do? If we keep letting them in, isn't it a fact that eventually - not in my lifetime but maybe in my grandson's - they will become the majority as they will in Europe?
I find this a ridiculous argument steeped in appeasement.
As John Howard said, we will decide who comes here!

Why will they become the majority? Do they offer a better way of life? Of course not.

They were never a majority in Spain, yet they ruled it for a few centuries. Same with the whole region from North Africa to Pakistan - they were not a majority for centuries after they conquered them. They don't have to offer a better way of life because once they reach a critical mass, you have no choice, except to convert or pay a tax or die.

You talk as if Islam was just an Arab version of much of current Western Christianity - timid, accommodating, embarassed.

Islam is more like the Spanish Inquisition, not like Anglicanism.

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Grey

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #39 - Mar 27^th, 2011 at 2:04am

bogarde73 wrote on Mar 26^th, 2011 at 1:36pm:

Why will they become the majority?
Didn't you read my opening post about population trends? This is not my fantasy.
And once they are the majority, everybody else will have to bend to their will. Can't you see that?
In Germany, where the Turks have been for 50, 60 years, many of them refuse to integrate.
In your precious England the same. The Islamic Republic of Yorkshire is a nation state waiting to happen in the future.
Those are just the trends. In the meantime we have an ongoing battle with a terrorist threat, with demands for this that & the other to be changed to suit their customs, with trying to police activities which we find abhorrent, such as child marriages in secret, female circumcision and the like. As mentioned previously, the Germans have had to pass legislation outlawing the kind of thing I referred to in my OP. It is one thing to legislate though, it is another thing to prevent.
I have it on good authority that the University of Western Sydney closed its Christian chapel and gave the space to the muslims for a prayer room.
Why should we put up with any of it? I'm sorry Grey, but you are another of the rose-bespectacled brigade, not that you're alone.

Keep them out!

Yep it's a real worry isn't it? It might fascinate you to learn that the Yellow 'other religions' include Buddhists who have a bigger slice of the demographic than Muslims. Wink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AustralianReligiousAffiliation.svg

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Soren

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #40 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 3:52pm

Grey wrote on Mar 27^th, 2011 at 2:04am:

Yep it's a real worry isn't it? It might fascinate you to learn that the Yellow 'other religions' include Buddhists who have a bigger slice of the demographic than Muslims. Wink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AustralianReligiousAffiliation.svg

We'll worry about them when they start blowing up buses to bring about lamaism or a Burmese style dictatorship.

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Grey

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Re: The case against Islamic immigration
Reply #41 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 4:52pm

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We'll worry about them when they start blowing up buses to bring about lamaism or a Burmese style dictatorship.

I suspect that the rising Buddhist slice of the demographic has little to do with immigration actually. But the point of this discussion, 'The case against Islamic immigration' I mean to say, what the hell does that mean?

Is it seriously proposed that anybody can come to Australia or at least apply to become Australian, except fro Muslims? Is that seriously being put as a tenable argument? If not what is?

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: The case against Islamic immigration Reply #42 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 7:19pm .
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: The case against Islamic immigration Reply #43 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 7:19pm The world seems perfectly cool with the Saudis not allowing Christian or Jewish immigration - so I don't see why the idea can't at least be raised. It is raised across Europe, in some of the most tolerant countries - we wouln't want to b seen uncultured and backward by European standards, would we?
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Foolosophy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1171 Australia Gender:	Re: The case against Islamic immigration Reply #44 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 7:44pm ...what colour is GOD's skin?
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