Australian Politics Forum - Are these the Biblical end times ?

muso

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Re: Are these the Biblical end times ?
Reply #15 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 11:00am

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 10:46am:

Yadda,

Does thee ever quote the Talmudian verses?

Verily I say unto thee, not bloody likely because he's a Christian.

I'm pretty sure that there is a connection between the apocryphal book of Enoch and Revelation. The most obvious connection is with Ezekiel.

There are various interpretations of the date of Revelation. Most academics agree that it couldn't have been written by the Apostle John, aso I'm told.

Revelation is 'probably' contemporaneous to the gospels, or at least the oldest two gospels.

Most of Paul's writing were at least 250 years later, and there is a big question (by those mostly atheistic theologians) on exactly how relevant they are to the original teachings of Christ.

As a non Christian, I find the historiography of the Bible quite fascinating.

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Foolosophy

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Re: Are these the Biblical end times ?
Reply #16 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 11:58am

muso wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 11:00am:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 10:46am:

Yadda,

Does thee ever quote the Talmudian verses?

Verily I say unto thee, not bloody likely because he's a Christian.

I'm pretty sure that there is a connection between the apocryphal book of Enoch and Revelation. The most obvious connection is with Ezekiel.

There are various interpretations of the date of Revelation. Most academics agree that it couldn't have been written by the Apostle John, aso I'm told.

Revelation is 'probably' contemporaneous to the gospels, or at least the oldest two gospels.

Most of Paul's writing were at least 250 years later, and there is a big question (by those mostly atheistic theologians) on exactly how relevant they are to the original teachings of Christ.

As a non Christian, I find the historiography of the Bible quite fascinating.

Very interesting indeed.

In fact its also interesting to trace back the Hellenic roots of Christianity.

Almost all of the Christian morals and ethics were based on the ancient Hellenic Englightenment epoch (which shouldn't really surprise anyone as that epoch still reverberates in today's world)

Jesus was basically a Hellenised Jew - a Humanist/pacifist socialist leaning anarchist.

Jesus rejected much of the Old Testament immorality and cruelty which is why Jews reject Christ even until this very day. Nowadays Orthodox Jews burn copies of the Gospels in the streets of Israeli cities - imagine an Moslem doing that anywhere in the world today? Would it get any publicity?)

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« Last Edit: Mar 29^th, 2011 at 12:04pm by Foolosophy »

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Are these the Biblical end times ?
Reply #17 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:11pm

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 11:58am:

muso wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 11:00am:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 10:46am:

Yadda,

Does thee ever quote the Talmudian verses?

Verily I say unto thee, not bloody likely because he's a Christian.

I'm pretty sure that there is a connection between the apocryphal book of Enoch and Revelation. The most obvious connection is with Ezekiel.

There are various interpretations of the date of Revelation. Most academics agree that it couldn't have been written by the Apostle John, aso I'm told.

Revelation is 'probably' contemporaneous to the gospels, or at least the oldest two gospels.

Most of Paul's writing were at least 250 years later, and there is a big question (by those mostly atheistic theologians) on exactly how relevant they are to the original teachings of Christ.

As a non Christian, I find the historiography of the Bible quite fascinating.

Very interesting indeed.

In fact its also interesting to trace back the Hellenic roots of Christianity.

Almost all of the Christian morals and ethics were based on the ancient Hellenic Englightenment epoch (which shouldn't really surprise anyone as that epoch still reverberates in today's world)

Jesus was basically a Hellenised Jew - a Humanist/pacifist socialist leaning anarchist.

Jesus rejected much of the Old Testament immorality and cruelty which is why Jews reject Christ even until this very day. Nowadays Orthodox Jews burn copies of the Gospels in the streets of Israeli cities - imagine an Moslem doing that anywhere in the world today? Would it get any publicity?)

So why does the Christian Bible still include the Old Testament???

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Bobbythebat

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Are these the Biblical end times ? Reply #18 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:23pm gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:11pm: So why does the Christian Bible still include the Old Testament??? I could answer that with the stock reply, but it's probably better coming from a Christian. Yadda?
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Are these the Biblical end times ?
Reply #19 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:32pm

muso wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:23pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:11pm:

So why does the Christian Bible still include the Old Testament???

I could answer that with the stock reply, but it's probably better coming from a Christian. Yadda?

Go for it...I'm not really a Christian either......(except when I need swear words)....

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It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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muso

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Re: Are these the Biblical end times ?
Reply #20 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:36pm

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 11:58am:

Very interesting indeed.

In fact its also interesting to trace back the Hellenic roots of Christianity.

Almost all of the Christian morals and ethics were based on the ancient Hellenic Englightenment epoch (which shouldn't really surprise anyone as that epoch still reverberates in today's world)

Jesus was basically a Hellenised Jew - a Humanist/pacifist socialist leaning anarchist.

Jesus rejected much of the Old Testament immorality and cruelty which is why Jews reject Christ even until this very day. Nowadays Orthodox Jews burn copies of the Gospels in the streets of Israeli cities - imagine an Moslem doing that anywhere in the world today? Would it get any publicity?)

I've heard a few different views on that. What about the Buddhist angle? Have you heard of that one? The Graeco Indian kingdom was finally invaded by the Scythians around 10 AD, and the resultant diaspora meant that there was suddenly a large number of Buddhist holy men wandering around the Middle East at this time.

The Sermon on the Mount had many elements in common with the Dhammapada of the Buddhists, and there are other examples such as the Last Supper.

- and then there were elements of the Mithraic Mysteries. Whose birthday was December 25?

The Bible itself was, like all ancient works of literature the result of collections of oral traditions, and as story tellers travelled, they picked up embellishments.

You mentioned the (Anatolian) Greek influences. What about the parallels between Homer(if he existed) and parts of the Old Testament.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Are these the Biblical end times ?
Reply #21 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:49pm

muso wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:36pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 11:58am:

Very interesting indeed.

In fact its also interesting to trace back the Hellenic roots of Christianity.

Almost all of the Christian morals and ethics were based on the ancient Hellenic Englightenment epoch (which shouldn't really surprise anyone as that epoch still reverberates in today's world)

Jesus was basically a Hellenised Jew - a Humanist/pacifist socialist leaning anarchist.

Jesus rejected much of the Old Testament immorality and cruelty which is why Jews reject Christ even until this very day. Nowadays Orthodox Jews burn copies of the Gospels in the streets of Israeli cities - imagine an Moslem doing that anywhere in the world today? Would it get any publicity?)

I've heard a few different views on that. What about the Buddhist angle? Have you heard of that one? The Graeco Indian kingdom was finally invaded by the Scythians around 10 AD, and the resultant diaspora meant that there was suddenly a large number of Buddhist holy men wandering around the Middle East at this time.

The Sermon on the Mount had many elements in common with the Dhammapada of the Buddhists, and there are other examples such as the Last Supper.

- and then there were elements of the Mithraic Mysteries. Whose birthday was December 25?
The Bible itself was, like all ancient works of literature the result of collections of oral traditions, and as story tellers travelled, they picked up embellishments.

You mentioned the (Anatolian) Greek influences. What about the parallels between Homer(if he existed) and parts of the Old Testament.

As i recall...Nobodies....Christ 'birthday' was moved from June or July to December 25 to match up with assorted winter solstice celebrations....( possibly the festival of 'Sol Invictus' one of the Roman Sun gods, who's festival was December 25th..)

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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muso

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Re: Are these the Biblical end times ?
Reply #22 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 3:04pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:32pm:

muso wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:23pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:11pm:

So why does the Christian Bible still include the Old Testament???

I could answer that with the stock reply, but it's probably better coming from a Christian. Yadda?

Go for it...I'm not really a Christian either......(except when I need swear words)....

My theologian friend would be proud of me. OK, the Old Testament provides the context - the "historical" background for the coming of Jesus Christ and the rationale behind the new contract. It illustrates how people are incapable of being good.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Note that this is not inconsistent with Matthew 5:17.

Quote:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

or Matthew 5:18-19

Quote:

Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.

In other words, they still make it to heaven under the new contract, but they shall be called the least.

A lot of Atheists bring these verses from Matthew (and another from Luke) up ad nauseum, and religious folks never seem to be able to defend it all that well.

Yadda - is that a fair summary?

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Yadda

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Re: Are these the Biblical end times ?
Reply #23 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 3:08pm

muso wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:23pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:11pm:

So why does the Christian Bible still include the Old Testament???

I could answer that with the stock reply, but it's probably better coming from a Christian. Yadda?

Put simply #1, because Jesus the man, was Jewish, AND, he was a Torah teacher [i.e. Jesus himself, validated OT scripture].

Put simply #2, because Jesus claimed to be the Jewish messiah.

Ergo, for Christians, the OT is [or, imo, should be considered by Christians as] valid scripture, along with the NT scripture.

It is recorded that Jesus himself quoted OT scripture frequently.

And Jesus himself claimed that OT scripture was his witness [see Luke 24 below].

Repeating what i said somewhere else on OzPol....

Quote:

OT and NT are two sides of the same coin.

They are both, the word of God.

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 24:21
But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;
23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.
24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.
29 But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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muso

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Re: Are these the Biblical end times ?
Reply #24 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 3:11pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:49pm:

As i recall...Nobodies....Christ 'birthday' was moved from June or July to December 25 to match up with assorted winter solstice celebrations....( possibly the festival of 'Sol Invictus' one of the Roman Sun gods, who's festival was December 25th..)

http://www.edwardjayne.com/christology/mithra.html

Quote:

RESEMBLANCES BETWEEN MITHRAISM AND CHRISTIANITY

1. Both Mithras and Christ were portrayed as young and beardless; both sometimes appeared in the shepherd's role, and both saved mankind by performing sacrifical deeds.

2. Both Mithras and Christ had virgin births in the sense that they were conceived without any sexual union between man and woman. Christ's father was said to be God, while Mithras was said to have had no father or mother, having emerged as an adult from a large rock.

3. Both Mithraism and Christianity celebrated the birth of their god on the winter solstice, the 25th of December according to the Julian calendar. Both featured the sharing of presents, the use of Christmas trees with candles, and nativity scenes that included shepherds attracted by a sacred light. The special importance of this solstice ceremony to Mithraists would be indicated by the name Mithras, which derived from Meitras, which in Greek numerology refers to the number 365, the last day of the solar year at the winter solstice.

4. Both the Old Testament and Mithraic legend told of the first human couple having been created. Mithra supposedly kept a watchful eye over their descendents until Ahriman caused a draught that caused such thirst that they begged Mithra for water.

5. Both told of a major flood, in the case of Mithra through his having shot an arrow into a stone cliff to quench mankind's thirst. Unfortunately, the entire world's population was drowned in a flood produced by the water spout that gushed from the hole his arrow produced. One man alone (a Noah figure borrowed from the earlier Sumerian myth of Atrahasis) was warned in time and could therefore save himself and his cattle in an ark.

6. Both Mithraism and Christianity emphasized mankind's redemption resulting from a sacrificial death followed by the god's ascent to heaven. In the case of Christ, it was the god himself (or his son) who was sacrificed; in the case of Mithra, it was a sacred steer that Mithra sacrificed.

7. Both featured resurrection through sacrifice. Mithraism more obviously drew upon spring equinox fertility myths by depicting Mithra's sacrificial bull with a tail that consisted of sheaves of wheat that were supposedly scattered throughout the world once it was slaughtered. Also, the bull's blood formed the milky way, allowing human souls both to be born and to return to the heavens after death.

8. Both told of a Last Supper linked with the blood sacrifice whose symbolic recreation by eating bread and wine provided salvation for all worshippers. After Mithra killed the bull depicted in Mithraic art, he feasted upon it with the Sun God and other companions before ascending to the heavens in the sun god's chariot. The sequence was slightly different in the New Testament: Christ's Last Supper necessarily preceded his crucifixion rather than following it, after which he ascended to heaven.

9. Both emphasized purification through baptism, Mithraists by washing themselves in the blood of sacrificial oxen. While dying oxen bled to death on lattice floors built over their heads, initiates both drank and washed themselves with the blood that dripped on them.

10. Both featured secret temples located underground. For Christians it was a temporary expedient to avoid persecution, but for Mithraists it became a permanent institution, each small chapel, called a Mithraeum, having seated no more than fifty worshippers and having been constructed to point from east to west. Rounded ceilings were painted blue and imbedded with gemstones. There were no windows except for a few chapels in which tiny holes in the ceiling that had been bored to let in the light of certain stars at particular times of the year.

11. Both held Sunday to be sacred.

12. Both encouraged asceticism. Mithraists were expected to resist sensuality and to abstain from eating certain foods.

13. Both emphasized charity. Mithra was identified as the god of help who protected his worshippers, whatever their tribulations in life.

14. Last and probably least, both emphasized a rock, Mithra having been born from one and the Vatican having been built on one.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Are these the Biblical end times ?
Reply #25 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 3:38pm

muso wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 3:11pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:49pm:

As i recall...Nobodies....Christ 'birthday' was moved from June or July to December 25 to match up with assorted winter solstice celebrations....( possibly the festival of 'Sol Invictus' one of the Roman Sun gods, who's festival was December 25th..)

http://www.edwardjayne.com/christology/mithra.html

Quote:

RESEMBLANCES BETWEEN MITHRAISM AND CHRISTIANITY

1. Both Mithras and Christ were portrayed as young and beardless; both sometimes appeared in the shepherd's role, and both saved mankind by performing sacrifical deeds.

2. Both Mithras and Christ had virgin births in the sense that they were conceived without any sexual union between man and woman. Christ's father was said to be God, while Mithras was said to have had no father or mother, having emerged as an adult from a large rock.

3. Both Mithraism and Christianity celebrated the birth of their god on the winter solstice, the 25th of December according to the Julian calendar. Both featured the sharing of presents, the use of Christmas trees with candles, and nativity scenes that included shepherds attracted by a sacred light. The special importance of this solstice ceremony to Mithraists would be indicated by the name Mithras, which derived from Meitras, which in Greek numerology refers to the number 365, the last day of the solar year at the winter solstice.

4. Both the Old Testament and Mithraic legend told of the first human couple having been created. Mithra supposedly kept a watchful eye over their descendents until Ahriman caused a draught that caused such thirst that they begged Mithra for water.

5. Both told of a major flood, in the case of Mithra through his having shot an arrow into a stone cliff to quench mankind's thirst. Unfortunately, the entire world's population was drowned in a flood produced by the water spout that gushed from the hole his arrow produced. One man alone (a Noah figure borrowed from the earlier Sumerian myth of Atrahasis) was warned in time and could therefore save himself and his cattle in an ark.

6. Both Mithraism and Christianity emphasized mankind's redemption resulting from a sacrificial death followed by the god's ascent to heaven. In the case of Christ, it was the god himself (or his son) who was sacrificed; in the case of Mithra, it was a sacred steer that Mithra sacrificed.

7. Both featured resurrection through sacrifice. Mithraism more obviously drew upon spring equinox fertility myths by depicting Mithra's sacrificial bull with a tail that consisted of sheaves of wheat that were supposedly scattered throughout the world once it was slaughtered. Also, the bull's blood formed the milky way, allowing human souls both to be born and to return to the heavens after death.

8. Both told of a Last Supper linked with the blood sacrifice whose symbolic recreation by eating bread and wine provided salvation for all worshippers. After Mithra killed the bull depicted in Mithraic art, he feasted upon it with the Sun God and other companions before ascending to the heavens in the sun god's chariot. The sequence was slightly different in the New Testament: Christ's Last Supper necessarily preceded his crucifixion rather than following it, after which he ascended to heaven.

9. Both emphasized purification through baptism, Mithraists by washing themselves in the blood of sacrificial oxen. While dying oxen bled to death on lattice floors built over their heads, initiates both drank and washed themselves with the blood that dripped on them.

10. Both featured secret temples located underground. For Christians it was a temporary expedient to avoid persecution, but for Mithraists it became a permanent institution, each small chapel, called a Mithraeum, having seated no more than fifty worshippers and having been constructed to point from east to west. Rounded ceilings were painted blue and imbedded with gemstones. There were no windows except for a few chapels in which tiny holes in the ceiling that had been bored to let in the light of certain stars at particular times of the year.

11. Both held Sunday to be sacred.

12. Both encouraged asceticism. Mithraists were expected to resist sensuality and to abstain from eating certain foods.

13. Both emphasized charity. Mithra was identified as the god of help who protected his worshippers, whatever their tribulations in life.

14. Last and probably least, both emphasized a rock, Mithra having been born from one and the Vatican having been built on one.

Oh I understand that muso...The mythos at least, but none the less, if you look into the records of the Govenors, the census' were most likely carried out in Spring or Summer....basically from April, to August...

In Rome itself, the census was taken in March...

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It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Foolosophy

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Re: Are these the Biblical end times ?
Reply #26 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 3:38pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:11pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 11:58am:

muso wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 11:00am:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 10:46am:

Yadda,

Does thee ever quote the Talmudian verses?

Verily I say unto thee, not bloody likely because he's a Christian.

I'm pretty sure that there is a connection between the apocryphal book of Enoch and Revelation. The most obvious connection is with Ezekiel.

There are various interpretations of the date of Revelation. Most academics agree that it couldn't have been written by the Apostle John, aso I'm told.

Revelation is 'probably' contemporaneous to the gospels, or at least the oldest two gospels.

Most of Paul's writing were at least 250 years later, and there is a big question (by those mostly atheistic theologians) on exactly how relevant they are to the original teachings of Christ.

As a non Christian, I find the historiography of the Bible quite fascinating.

Very interesting indeed.

In fact its also interesting to trace back the Hellenic roots of Christianity.

Almost all of the Christian morals and ethics were based on the ancient Hellenic Englightenment epoch (which shouldn't really surprise anyone as that epoch still reverberates in today's world)

Jesus was basically a Hellenised Jew - a Humanist/pacifist socialist leaning anarchist.

Jesus rejected much of the Old Testament immorality and cruelty which is why Jews reject Christ even until this very day. Nowadays Orthodox Jews burn copies of the Gospels in the streets of Israeli cities - imagine an Moslem doing that anywhere in the world today? Would it get any publicity?)

So why does the Christian Bible still include the Old Testament???

Ah yes - find the answer to that and ye shal verily discover a hidden secret my child.

One of the biggest propaganda campaigns and magic tricks to have struck the West is the coupling of the Old Testament with the Gospels or teachings of CHrist.

If you were to couple scriptures then the Old Testamen or Torah should be bound up together with the Koran - they are morally equivalent.

The inspiration for the ethical content described in the Gospels can be traced back to the ancient Hellenic enlightenment period.

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Re: Are these the Biblical end times ?
Reply #27 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 3:41pm

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 3:38pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:11pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 11:58am:

muso wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 11:00am:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 10:46am:

Yadda,

Does thee ever quote the Talmudian verses?

Verily I say unto thee, not bloody likely because he's a Christian.

I'm pretty sure that there is a connection between the apocryphal book of Enoch and Revelation. The most obvious connection is with Ezekiel.

There are various interpretations of the date of Revelation. Most academics agree that it couldn't have been written by the Apostle John, aso I'm told.

Revelation is 'probably' contemporaneous to the gospels, or at least the oldest two gospels.

Most of Paul's writing were at least 250 years later, and there is a big question (by those mostly atheistic theologians) on exactly how relevant they are to the original teachings of Christ.

As a non Christian, I find the historiography of the Bible quite fascinating.

Very interesting indeed.

In fact its also interesting to trace back the Hellenic roots of Christianity.

Almost all of the Christian morals and ethics were based on the ancient Hellenic Englightenment epoch (which shouldn't really surprise anyone as that epoch still reverberates in today's world)

Jesus was basically a Hellenised Jew - a Humanist/pacifist socialist leaning anarchist.

Jesus rejected much of the Old Testament immorality and cruelty which is why Jews reject Christ even until this very day. Nowadays Orthodox Jews burn copies of the Gospels in the streets of Israeli cities - imagine an Moslem doing that anywhere in the world today? Would it get any publicity?)

So why does the Christian Bible still include the Old Testament???

Ah yes - find the answer to that and ye shal verily discover a hidden secret my child.

One of the biggest propaganda campaigns and magic tricks to have struck the West is the coupling of the Old Testament with the Gospels or teachings of CHrist.

If you were to couple scriptures then the Old Testamen or Torah should be bound up together with the Koran - they are morally equivalent.

The inspiration for the ethical content described in the Gospels can be traced back to the ancient Hellenic enlightenment period.

Well actually, I do know why...
Jesus (providing he DID exist, and according to the scriptures), never rejected the OT, just the opposite in fact:

"Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, "The Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as "the commandment of God" (Matthew 15:3) and as the "Word of God" (Matthew 15:6). He also indicated that it was indestructible: "Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished" (Matthew 5:18). Notice that he mentions even the words and letters!"

And the Jews don't 'reject' Christ.....they simply reject the idea that he was the son of god, and consider him a prophet instead....Which, incidently, the Koran does as well...

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It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: Are these the Biblical end times ?
Reply #28 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 3:45pm

Yadda wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 3:08pm:

muso wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:23pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:11pm:

So why does the Christian Bible still include the Old Testament???

I could answer that with the stock reply, but it's probably better coming from a Christian. Yadda?

Put simply #1, because Jesus the man, was Jewish, AND, he was a Torah teacher [i.e. Jesus himself, validated OT scripture].

Put simply #2, because Jesus claimed to be the Jewish messiah.

[/quote]

Jesus never claimed to be the son of god nor the Messiah - He referred to himself as the King of the Jews - which can mean many things.

Have you actually read the Gospels? Or do you just cite ramblings form the OT as part of your therapy?
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Re: Are these the Biblical end times ?
Reply #29 - Mar 29^th, 2011 at 3:52pm

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 3:45pm:

Yadda wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 3:08pm:

muso wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:23pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 2:11pm:

So why does the Christian Bible still include the Old Testament???

I could answer that with the stock reply, but it's probably better coming from a Christian. Yadda?

Put simply #1, because Jesus the man, was Jewish, AND, he was a Torah teacher [i.e. Jesus himself, validated OT scripture].

Put simply #2, because Jesus claimed to be the Jewish messiah.

Jesus never claimed to be the son of god nor the Messiah - He referred to himself as the King of the Jews - which can mean many things.

Have you actually read the Gospels? Or do you just cite ramblings form the OT as part of your therapy?
\ [/quote]

Yes I have read the Gospels....it was the Disciples that claimed he was the son of god and the messiah....And Jesus didn't refer to himself as the 'King of the Jews'.....That was Pontius Pilate, Jesus just didn't disagree....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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