Materialists and lower ViBrAtOrY types should post in this thread until such a time as they can come to the rEaLiSaTiOn that they are ignorant puppets and need salvation from above.

Only then, universe willing, can they be blessed and make their way towards the Light.

Kindly refrain from posting in the serious spiritual posts and bringing down the vibes.

You are forgiven.

Quote:


What are vibratory types? Can you name those who are and describe their symptoms?

i am that and agree with master karnal

all are indeed forgiven

namaste

-:)

Piousness is the only way to the Light, dear one.

Forgiven.

Reina: Sorry, I got a shock too. I had no idea that (publication – withheld) was going to come out.
(Omb Investig 2): No.
Reina: Even though I work closely with (writer name) as you actually know.
(Omb Investig 2): We were caught by surprise. But nevertheless, I think that has been very positive from our point of view.
Reina: It has had a very positive response from the community.
(Omb Investig 2): Yes. I think that already, we've had an impact. But that's a big bonus, isn't it?
Reina: Yes.
(Omb Investig 2): But I guess to kick off the meeting, and (Omb Investig 3) is going to talk about the Project to you, but I've got carriage of the complaints that you've lodged to us. And it would be fair to say that what we've done with those complaints is we've used those complaints maybe not to your intention but we've certainly used those complaints as part of a foundation for what we believe might be a better outcome than what maybe you've envisaged.
So, I just don't know how to say this, but you're… the complaints that are very specific we have to respond to. But, we're seeking your support with this response, because if we were to tackle some of those specific issues, they might have a negative impact on the bigger picture that we're trying to make a far more progressive response from the agencies. So, what I'm alluding to is that we may use your complaints (and I've got a number of them here) but the majority of them are about poor reporting, and all those sort of… accountability type ones, in our Project, and address them in that format because that's the best format, and to make people far more accountable for their actions. That's the plan.
Reina: That's good.
(Omb Investig 2): So, if you're happy with that.
Reina: You'll have to talk me through it more because at the moment it's kind of general.
(Omb Investig 2): Yeah, we'll do that. But, that's the sort of direction we're going. Which leaves us with a couple of specific issues that fall outside of those things that we are tackling. Things that I'm talking about, you've mentioned specifically about tape-recording of interviews, like that interview with (alleged threatened victim – name withheld), and then I think the other one is to do with (the alleged perpetrator - name withheld) is (Omb Investig 3) with the car-park and that sort of thing.
So… they're outside of that, a couple of those there in our opinion are I guess somehow [inaudible] and I guess in comparison with the big issue, were sort of making the decision whether that will divert us away from what I think we are all on about. So, and I'll come back to that.
Reina: Yeah, we might have to because I think that (alleged perpetrator - name withheld) has done terrible things and even what he's done overtly terrible things that he seems to just… slip…
(Omb Investig 2): Yeah.
Reina: And just because he's well connected and he's in a very influential position, I just believe that he should be held accountable and where the police haven't done a proper job, to hold them accountable, it would be hard for me to just let that one go.
I feel strongly about it. I don't think anyone should be above the law.
(Omb Investig 2): We're all in agreement with that!
(Omb Investig 3): Just in relation to that, and I really want to focus on what we're doing in a sort of collaborative way… The concern that I've got (and I've got legal qualifications and background) is that the actual investigation of a threat to kill, is something that is extraordinarily difficult to prove, and in the face of the facts of the correspondence and different ways of interpreting the set of events, it is not actually going to produce the sort of result I imagine you want in terms of that particular individual.
And, I only give you a brief background in relation to (alleged criminal) who threatened people with a machine gun on top of David Jones store and they had great difficulty convicting him on that. So, it's a very difficult actual crime to prove. And, because that's the actual hook you've got with (alleged perpetrator - name withheld), I think that it won't produce the result that I imagine you want.
Reina: Yeah, can I just add one thing, there? It was very clear that (Police Officer 1) interviewed her, and didn't want to pursue it. Now, I think I was saying yesterday in my [media] interview that Police have a lot of power in deciding the outcome of the investigation just by what they decide they want to do from outset. And, it was just very clear that he just didn't want it to proceed. And he actually tried to intimidate her. I think that he should be held accountable for that because I don't believe that police should be misusing their position to determine the outcome of the investigation.
(Omb Investig 3): I agree. And we've already opened and found in the earlier stages of our work, the discretion that exists at station levels for example, in even characterizing something, as an offence, you know, particularly even a sexual offence. So, that is something that we pick up, but I guess that, you know, you have autonomy in relation to if you persist with the complaint, there is some discretion about whether or not the [relevant Department] would want to pursue it but I guess, though, as a Team, we would be reluctant to pursue that level of detail, if you like, the attitude of one or two Officers when we are in the position to influence the attitude of…

and nothing happens.
So, for us to be able to look at that holistically is I guess a unique opportunity. And I guess that the sense that George Brouwer has said, even though every other area of the functions of the [Ombudsman] Office have been separated, in this area it needs to continue to operate as a joint Project. So, that's if you like the context.
What are we doing? We are reviewing all the files, the police complaints, and mainly the complaints from the Education and the Human Services area, every single complaint that has anything to do with someone alleging sexual assault. Whether or not the complaint to us is about that, maybe is not relevant, if there is a person saying they have been subject to sexual assault, or sexual misconduct, then that is a file that we are looking at, and we are entering, we've established a database, and what we're doing is looking at if you like the sort of things that people complain about, and probably the kind of things that people don't complain about, where complaints come from, where they don't come from, and then all the players, every single name that's been on the file in this Office, for the last four years in association with the complaint, would be entered on a database.
And what it will demonstrate is if there are names appearing more than once.
Reina: Mmm.
(Omb Investig 3): And what we hope to do with that information, and with some discussions we are having with people like yourself, but already we've met with the CASA's (Centres Against Sexual Assault), we've met already with the APP, we've met with the Witness Assistant Service to identify if you like what are common issues and we will be taking those issues with the facts that we have, and asking the key agencies how is that they collect data. What it is they do, to track employees, or for example, failure to prosecute rape cases in particular agencies, incidences of sexual assault that influence two students at the same school, stuff that might never get to police, and look at their policies and procedures, and then identify issues that are common that point to rape - systematic rape breakdown issues. And, we've already got 44 issues.
Reina: Wow.
(Omb Investig 2). And, they're very significant issues, too.
Reina: Can you give a couple of examples?
Well, an example of the practice of some agencies when an accusation is made about a person with insufficient evidence to prove or proceed, or negotiate the termination and resignation occurs. That's one issue. In the early discussions we've had, we've identified issues with taxi drivers, I can't remember all of them…
(Omb Investig 2): But, in those 41 issues we've captured your issues. Things like the [tape] recording, remember, you've talked about that quite a bit, well, were going to focus some of those things.
Reina: Like, power to interview witnesses that can corroborate?
(Omb Investig 2): Yes. Well, what were looking at is partly the prosecution process that picks up things like the witnesses, it's from 'go to wo' and…without tipping what we've already found, there are a number of issues that we are going to put to the police, as we are going to put to others as well, too, by the way. But we are in the early days.
(Omb Investig 3): We will continue meeting, and we are interested in identifying those structural defects, the policy and procedure, employee screening, issues across the board, and identifying that sort of stuff, but also solutions and ways in which if you like agencies might be able to improve the collective response that they have through understandings between agencies, policies that they do implement in relation to insuring everyone has access to a CASA person, those sorts of things. And, we are interviewing everyone separately and apart, or talking to them, and I should say that it is intended to be a collaborative process that is problem-solving because we think that we have been on a problem-finding, we want to go ahead with what we think so we are getting that hard data together and confirmed through discussions with people.
Once we've got if you like consensus on what are the key areas of issue sort of stuff, we will probably as this is early days yet, so we are not committing ourselves to this, but we will see if we can actually get some problem-solving activities happening, so we might get representatives from the key agencies together saying 'These are the issues we've discovered, particularly across agencies, what are you going to do about them?'
(Omb Investig 2): And, some of these are agencies will be agencies specific too... And there are some hard issues for them to answer, by the way. There is some very difficult questions that we want answers to.
(Omb Investig 3): And, irrespective of the results of that, I think that we are increasingly heading to something that is a formal report, maybe tabled in Parliament, that established some issues hopefully and recommends some areas of change. The key aim of the Project is to improve the response of all agencies to allegations of sexual assault… To provide consistency and efficiency and timely responses… That produces the best outcome for the person that's been assaulted. I think we are going to be able to achieve that, but some of the stuff I think is relatively easy, I mean, 'Does your database talk to itself?' But that very clear message that you had is that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing, and there is no way for tracking of what is maybe a

letter?
(Omb Investig 2): I don't know the number off the top of my head. It would be something around that.
(Omb Investig 3): So, you want something in response to each of those and…
(Omb Investig 2): And where we see they fit in, is that what you're saying?
Reina: No, I just would hope that they will be investigated, and there will be specific responses to each of those. Just from the top of my head, I don't think I would be happy if for example the failure of (Police Officer 2) to adequately investigate the complaints against the organized child pornography network- in the late 90's. For that to never have a specific answer, for that just to be responded to in some sort of generic report on general police failure to treat these issues seriously.
I would like to see (Police Officer 2) and the others to be held accountable for their individual failure to investigate properly.
And I would like to see, hopefully, as a result of them being held accountable for their improper conduct for an investigation to be instigated.
I don't trust the Victoria Police still, I just think they're full of crap… excuse my language.
(Omb Investig 2): That's OK.
Reina: Their supposed investigation into the four re-opened cases has been a complete whitewash all designed to vindicate them from the findings of the Ombudsman. So, I would like the Ombudsman to be overseeing this subsequent investigation but it's my firm belief - and that of the victims - that at best, those police officers did not adequately investigate their complaints, and at worst, the police actively covered it up, because some of them are 'on the take'.
(Omb Investig 3): Weren't some of those issues covered [in the previous Ombudsman investigation]?
Reina: [firmly] No, they're all new.
(Omb Investig 3): This is… This is… I thought that the… the… key bit of that was in relation to… and I'm sorry, I haven't… I had a look at the report that they made… But not in any great detail… but that… the… um… the… I thought that the Crime Stoppers allegation… or am I getting confused?
Reina: Yep. You're getting confused. The Crime Stoppers issue was dealt with by (Ombusdman Investigators 5 and 6)'s report.
But, I have reported the existence of an organized paedophile network and child pornography network that's also trafficking drugs and is also associated with unsolved murders, I reported that to police…and they made a mockery of it. And then I subsequently found out that they've received numerous reports independently identifying the same network, however.
And, when those reports were made, the same thing happened…that they weren't investigated properly, the witnesses were intimidated, and nothing's come of it.
And it's [child paedophile and pornography network] still going on.
(Omb Investig 3): Well, that's a very good example of what I think the Project may address. My understanding is that the way that data is collected requires… and we are in the early stages yet… that there may be too much discretion given to somebody in regard to the way that data is accessed.
When somebody says, 'I want to tell you about my experience,' the way that person may be received may be totally up to the discretion of the person whose there.
In investigating the previous allegations in relation to the paedophile network there have been no witnesses to the fact… in fact, there's been nobody who has said that, 'On the (date – withheld), I presented at (name of suburb - withheld) Police Station and this is what I said'.
So, it's very difficult for us to investigate that. It's very difficult for anyone to investigate that…without witnesses as to the fact. I mean, you've given your…
Reina: I have witnesses. There are witnesses who can.
(Omb Investig 3): Well, my understanding is that…
Reina: Well, there are witnesses… three of them to substantiate that they independently made a complaint to (Police Officer 2, Police Officer 3, Police Officer 4 – names withheld) regarding that same network.
(Omb Investig 3): Not in relation to the Child Care Centre…in relation to something else.
Reina: In relation to an organized paedophile and child pornography network that's also trafficking drugs and associated with a number of unsolved murders in this State [Victoria].
(Omb Investig 3): See, I don't know if anybody's got the names of those witnesses.
Reina: No, I haven't given them, yet because I was told that the file… Actually, I have given them, and I was actually told that the file would be brought up… collected… and that you wouldn't contact the victims until I got back so I could…
(Omb Investig 3): I understand the names that you faxed to (Omb Investig 1) there we're some names that we're email to (Omb Investig 1) in that related to the (alleged perpetrator – name withheld) creche.

Omb Investig 2): Well, we'll revisit that.
Reina: Because this is an essential issue. This is like the key issue.
(Omb Investig 3): That's right, because we haven't contacted anyone, and I saw some names and I know that they we're actually people who we're associated with the…
(Omb Investig 2): [to Reina] Those we're the names you sent through. Remember, they we're the names you sent through.
Reina: Yes. Separate. That's separate, a whole new complaint.
(Omb Investig 2): Yes.
(Omb Investig 3): OK.
Reina: Quite independent of the last complaint. In fact, the only thing that overlaps is the investigating Officers of which we have serious concerns.
(Omb Investig 3): Which is why we are, in our files, identifying anyone who has anything to do with… just to see all the different themes in relation to that. So, we'll go back, in relation to those names, and…
(Omb Investig 2): Yeah.
(Omb Investig 3): And…
Reina: Can we go through, actually, I need to put some money in my car, So, can we sort of go through…
(Omb Investig 2): Can we stop this [the tape] then? Are you happy with that?
Reina: Yep.
(Omb Investig 3): OK. That's right. We'll go through all of this. And we'll have an action plan, in relation to each one
That would be great. And actually, we need to sort of… we need to clarify between you know, the difference the old and the new, the difference between the general and the specific, and the whole lot.
(Omb Investig 3): Great, that's terrific.
(Omb Investig 2): [speaking to tape] 2:55. Thank you.
[Tape stopped for a short break]
(Omb Investig 3): OK. So we'll go back and listen to the original tape you had… with (Omb Investig 2) on it…
(Omb Investig 2): And just… just for the tape, I make the time about: 3:05.
(Omb Investig 3): OK. The other two bits of that… This is all about how they [the police] proceed with previous reports, what they've done with them, their ability to actually say when there are two or three similar reports and match that up. The other allegations are, failure to investigate allegations of serious crimes, and the minimization of existence of previous reports.
So, you've got corroborative witnesses in relation to the particular, which is something that can be subject to investigation. When we say can, it's possible that it can be subject to investigation, but these other matters are clearly really something that we hope to address in relation to… the database and the information exchange and the ability to actually track multiple offenders or similar offences is a key issue. It's an issue for all the organizations. We hope to be able to do that.
The next area relates to…
Reina: Can I just relate to the first issues?
(Omb Investig 2): Yes.
Reina: Our main contention is… that there is a criminal network that is operating in Victoria, and it's responsible for child pornography and the distribution of it, child prostitution, and trafficking in drugs, and it's also committed a number of unsolved murders in this State. Our main contention is that police are protecting them.
(Omb Investig 3): Yep.
Reina: It's not only that this case demonstrates all of these failings to document cases adequately, the point is that it is being protected, the victims who were abused as part of this network as children can testify to the fact that police officers we're actually being paid off so that this criminal network remained untouchable. So that's why we want it to be investigated thoroughly, and for there to be a report of the kind of quality that came out as a result of the last complaint. There is clearly something really bad happening in this State, and it needs to be sorted out.
It's organized crime, and it's being allowed to continue because… There are a couple of bad eggs in the right places.
(Omb Investig 3): I'm not sure either the Office of Police Integrity or…
I'm absolutely certain that the Ombudsman of Victoria can't deliver that level of investigation, can't do that.
Reina: Can't investigate organized crime and police protection of organized crime?
(Omb Investig 3): No. Can't.
It can investigate the allegations of the conduct of corrupt police officers… possibly. And, that's once its new coercive powers have been tried and tested in Court.
Reina: I believe that there is at least enough to say that the repeated allegations made independently made by independent witnesses of the organized crime network has not been adequately investigated.
And, through that investigation I'm hoping that you will find evidence of police corruption and police officers being 'paid off' by this network.
And then, as I know that you can't actually investigate crimes as such, just to have the acknowledgement that there is a scandal of this type of organized crime that will lead to some action being taken - even if it is by the Victoria Police. That's what I was hoping.
(Omb Investig 3): I mean… I… The… The… The role of the Office of Police Integrity as I said before is relatively new, it's bringing a new face to Victoria in relation to non- Police if you like investigation of crime. Still, within that Office the people who are actually writing off the briefs and producing if you like the paperwork that will produce a day in court of people. And they're the only ones in Victoria, under the Law that are able to prepare a brief of those, criminal prosecution. So, that's one issue.
The extent to which there are witnesses to facts saying that, 'I said, on such a such a day, and nothing's happened,' you know,