http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/-/world/9166141/french-burqa-ban-goes-into-force-on-monday/

French police will from Monday become the first officers in Europe empowered to intercept Muslim women wearing full-face veils and to threaten them with fines if they refuse to expose their faces.

While some other countries and territories have drawn up bans on the burqa and the niqab, France -- home to Europe's largest Muslim population -- will be the first to risk stirring social tensions by putting one into practice.

The law comes into effect at an already fraught moment in relations between the state and France's Muslim minority, with President Nicolas Sarkozy accused of stigmatising Islam to win back votes from a resurgent far right.

French officials estimate that only around 2,000 women, from a total Muslim population estimated at between four and six million, wear a niqab or a burqa, full-face veils that are traditional in parts of Arabia and South Asia.

But many Muslims and rights watchdogs accuse Sarkozy of targeting one of France's most vulnerable and isolated groups to signal to anti-immigration voters that he shares their fear that Islam is a threat to French culture.

Other critics worry the law may be hard to enforce, since it had to be drawn up without reference to religion to ban any kind of face covering in public and since police officers will not be allowed to remove women's head coverings.

Many supporters of the law have defended it as a measure not designed to harm Islam, but to support a woman's right to walk unveiled, although the text makes it clear that a woman can not choose herself to cover her face in public.

Under a ministerial directive, anyone refusing to lift his or her veil to submit to an identity check can be taken to a police station. There, officers must try to persuade them to remove the garment, and can threaten fines.

A woman who repeatedly insists on appearing veiled in public can be fined 150 euros ($A205) and ordered to attend re-education classes.

There are much more severe penalties for anyone found guilty of forcing someone else to hide his or her face "through threats, violence, constraint, abuse of authority or power for reason of their gender".

Clearly aimed at fathers, husbands or religious leaders who force women to wear face-veils, and applicable to offences committed in public or in private, the law imposes a fine of 30,000 euros and a year in jail.

Moves to impose the law began in June when an opposition Communist lawmaker demanded a parliamentary inquiry into whether the wearing of full-face veils was becoming more prevalent in French Muslim communities.

Sarkozy waited only a couple of days before weighing in, declaring the full-face veil was "not welcome" in France and branding it a symbol of "servitude" and not of religious observance.

France's main Muslim representative body, the CFCM, partially agreed with him, issuing a statement arguing that insisting upon a niqab or a burqa was an "extremist" reading of the Koran and not a "religious obligation".

But other groups claimed the government had seized on an issue that touches a tiny minority and used it to stigmatise the entire Muslim community, which has been accused of failing to integrate into French life.

Foreign extremists, including fugitive al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden used the ban to argue France is at war with Islam, and called for attacks.

It is hard to gauge the mood of the bulk of veil wearing French Muslim women, but two -- who gave their names as Aya and Umm Isra -- said they would not challenge the ban in the street.

But, they added, if they can't wear their niqabs they will likely go out far less often, suggesting the ban could create a hidden underclass.

Sarkozy and his party have refused to back down and, seeing their opinion poll scores dipping and those of the anti-Islam National Front growing, have vowed to start a broader debate on the place of Islam in France.

The centre-right president will seek re-election next year and a strong showing for the Front's leader Marine Le Pen in the first round could fatally wound his campaign and allow the left's candidate to sweep past to victory.
Belgium's parliament has approved a similar law, but has yet to enforce it. In the Netherlands far-right leaders have proposed a ban, and in Italy the right-wing Northern League is lobbying for a ban on the French model.

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2011 at 1:43pm:




oh crap so if you had a small shop and they all came in with faces covered you wouldnt mind...yeah right.

if its good enough for a motorbike riders.. or even a skier..then its good enough for them. its got nothing to do with freedom or liberty.its commonsense

...and the Moslems will do to the French
what the Germans did to the Jews
and then both Moslem and Jew will Unite
and get those bloody Italians (who just happen to take a dive out of helping the French against the Moslem onslaught.)

cods wrote on Apr 9^th, 2011 at 1:55pm:


Yeah, those burqa clad thieves are growing in numbers.

Besides, why not make a standard policy that encompasses all face coverings, including but not limited to burqas? Alternatively, why not give shop owners, business etc. the right to decide these measures within their own stores, rather than a standard application across all public areas?

"You take away my ball and chain, you take away my freedom! For I am black and proud!"

darkhall67 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2011 at 8:53pm:


Pressure is on now... And I'm not sure this will address your point too much, however:

First of all, I want to make clear that I don't like the burqa. Obviously, I don't like that people are forced to wear it, nor do I like the fact that people - even by choice - feel the need to wear it.

But there are issues specific to the burqa, or a burqa ban, that I have trouble with. I've alluded to the idea that the ban on the burqa is an overreaction to what has thus far been a relative non-issue, and I think much in the way of concerns surrounding security (and indeed a general social 'openness') could be better addressed with other measures.

This isn't really about security though, and those responsible for the ban have admittedly said as much. Again, for what it's worth, I acknowledge their concerns and for the most part, agree with them (even if I do, as stated, think it's a bit of an overreaction).

However, I still think such a ban is unproductive and potentially dangerous.

We know people are forced to wear the burqa. Is such a ban really going to change anything? Any woman who lives in a family (or culture) that forces her to wear the covering is likely already subject to a fair degree of pressure (at best) or fear and intimidation (at worst). Do we really think the people responsible for forcing someone to wear the covering are going to happily abide by the new laws? Of course not. My concern is that for the most part this will ultimately force such behaviour to manifest itself in more sinister, hidden ways.

Then there are those who choose to wear the burqa. They do so because they feel it provides them a degree of modesty as outlined in the Quran (an extreme interpretation, but one held by some nonetheless). A ban on the burqa is essentially dictating to these individuals the way in which they should practice their religion. Now this has merit to some degree (e.g. we can't allow people to practice their faith in a way that represents a danger to others), but it's an extremely dangerous, slippery slope - especially when the reasons for doing so seem so vague (if that's the right word. Regardless, there's not to much in the way of how this ban is expected to 'work').

Ultimately, I think there are better ways to approach the subject, both in terms of cultural and security concerns.

In terms of the 'ball and chain', I wouldn't actually support a 'ban' in such a hypothetical. The above reasons generally apply, and I certainly don't feel that it would address that actual problem that makes the individual wear that ball and chain.

It's kind of late, so my answer might not make to much sense, but I'll have another look at it come morning   Hope it clarifies where I stand anyway.  

Every country has the natural right to uphold their own standards, within reason.  To go in public with one`s identity hidden is offensive to many westerners.  France gas every right to maintain it`s own standards, if it offends a few creepy hair splitters, so be it.

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So countries have natural rights, but people don't? It is only hair splitting because they are denying someone else the right to choose what to wear. If the government started telling you you cannot go in public without exposing your breasts I doubt you would consider it hair splitting.