Australian Politics Forum - Burqua ban start on Monday

Soren

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Re: Burqua ban start on Monday
Reply #30 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 1:14pm

The decision by the French government to outlaw all forms of public face-masking, including the burka and niqab, is welcomed by all thinking Muslims around the world.

The Muslim Educational Centre of Oxford which has pioneered an enlightened and egalitarian Islam salutes France for its bold legislative steps to eradicate this hideous tribal dress code that is deliberately given a completely false veneer of Islam.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1375770/The-burka-oppresses-women-required-Islamic-law--doesnt-mean-Britain-follow-Frances-footsteps.html#ixzz1JH6hU63l

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Grey

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Re: Burqua ban start on Monday
Reply #31 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 2:12pm

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French officials estimate that only around 2,000 women, from a total Muslim population estimated at between four and six million, wear a niqab or a burqa, full-face veils that are traditional in parts of Arabia and South Asia.

In which parts of South Asia is the Burqa traditional? None that I know of. If it means Afghanistan or Pakistan the 'tradition' only started yesterday.

If it was a clothing choice I'd support the burqa. I think actually that the sight of a women moving as a blue cloud is exotic and beautiful. But that isn't the case. The burqa is a tool of an oppressive patriarchy and that's all it is. It has nothing to do with anything else, even with Islam. If the KKK hood isn't banned, it ought to be.

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Yadda

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Re: Burqua ban start on Monday
Reply #32 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 2:21pm

Soren wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 1:14pm:

The decision by the French government to outlaw all forms of public face-masking, including the burka and niqab, is welcomed by all thinking Muslims around the world.

The Muslim Educational Centre of Oxford which has pioneered an enlightened and egalitarian Islam salutes France for its bold legislative steps to eradicate this hideous tribal dress code that is deliberately given a completely false veneer of Islam.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1375770/The-burka-oppresses-women-required-Islamic-law--doesnt-mean-Britain-follow-Frances-footsteps.html#ixzz1JH6hU63l

Both of them.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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...

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Re: Burqua ban start on Monday
Reply #33 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 2:25pm

I walked past some muslims in these robes with my 2 year old daughter on the weekend. As she walked past she blurted out 'ugly' which is a new word for her. She was absolutely right, the sight of a walking tent is ugly, but I don't support banning it. I DO support the repealing of anti-dsicrimination laws which forbid to me to express such opinions for fear of offending them, with no regard paid to the offense I feel at being automatically deemed 'unworthy' to even look at them.

fat chance of that happening, so I guess it's up to the children to say what we're all thinking.

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In the fullness of time...

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Grey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5341 Gender:	Re: Burqua ban start on Monday Reply #34 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 2:27pm ... wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 2:25pm: I walked past some muslims in these robes with my 2 year old daughter on the weekend. As she walked past she blurted out 'ugly' which is a new word for her. She was absolutely right, the sight of a walking tent is ugly, but I don't support banning it. Why not Wesley?
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...

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Re: Burqua ban start on Monday
Reply #35 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 2:31pm

Grey wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 2:27pm:

... wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 2:25pm:

I walked past some muslims in these robes with my 2 year old daughter on the weekend. As she walked past she blurted out 'ugly' which is a new word for her. She was absolutely right, the sight of a walking tent is ugly, but I don't support banning it.

Why not Wesley?

Because I'm not comfortable with the government dictating what we can or can't wear.
Of course, the rights of the public must be protected though, so people must have the right to refuse entry/service to those wearing it, in the same way as they do if I want to wear my bike helmet into the servo to pay for fuel. These common sense exemptions have to override those blunt instruments known as anti-discrimination laws.

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In the fullness of time...

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Yadda

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Re: Burqua ban start on Monday
Reply #36 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 2:37pm

... wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 2:25pm:

I walked past some muslims in these robes with my 2 year old daughter on the weekend. As she walked past she blurted out 'ugly' which is a new word for her. She was absolutely right, the sight of a walking tent is ugly, but I don't support banning it. I DO support the repealing of anti-dsicrimination laws which forbid to me to express such opinions for fear of offending them, with no regard paid to the offense I feel at being automatically deemed 'unworthy' to even look at them.

fat chance of that happening, so I guess it's up to the children to say what we're all thinking.

Many young children are too young, to have come under the influence of the PC crowd yet.

So yes, many children are refreshingly, not afraid to tell the truth,
....to declare,

"Look! The 'Emperor' has no clothes on."

"The honesty of children"

Which is, i think, an olde English 'saying'

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Grey

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Re: Burqua ban start on Monday
Reply #37 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 2:46pm

Quote:

Because I'm not comfortable with the government dictating what we can or can't wear.

You know in Afghanistan there wasn't a burqa in sight until the Taliban took over and then it became mandatory overnight. This isn't a clothing issue. This is Islamofascism waving its flag in our face using an oppressed woman as a billboard. I'm basically an Anarchist. I've got ideals too. Sometimes you have to recognise the paradox of a situation, plant your feet and do the 'non passant' thing.

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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freediver

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Re: Burqua ban start on Monday
Reply #38 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 8:28pm

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Of course that's an apt analogy of what's going on in households where the burka is de rigueur .

No it is not darkhall. This whole anti burka campaign rests on the absurd insistance that women only wear it if they are being oppressed by men. This is simply not true. There are plenty of women around who freely choose to wear it and they don't necessarily even have a man in the household. Those who make this claim have no more moral authority than Muslim men who make up rules that deny women the choice of what to wear.

Quote:

If there ever was a mismatch, it's muslims and the French.

Which is why they are only brave enough to pick on the women.

Quote:

If it was a clothing choice I'd support the burqa.

You make a false dichotomy Grey. Regardless of their motives, it is still a choice about what to wear. You are still denying women one of the most basic choices they can make. If a woman decides to cover her breasts for modesty rather than fashion, would you deny them that right?

Quote:

The burqa is a tool of an oppressive patriarchy and that's all it is.

No Grey. It is also an item of clothing. This is the sort of tortured logic people get into when they try to justify the unjustifiable.

Quote:

Because I'm not comfortable with the government dictating what we can or can't wear.

Finally, someone who can see this for what it is, in all its simplicity.

Quote:

Sometimes you have to recognise the paradox of a situation, plant your feet and do the 'non passant' thing.

Grey, are you suggesting that the only way to protect women from oppression is by denying them a choice in what they wear? It's not a paradox. It's just stupid.

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darkhall67

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Re: Burqua ban start on Monday
Reply #39 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 9:04pm

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 8:28pm:

[quote]Of course that's an apt analogy of what's going on in households where the burka is de rigueur .

No it is not darkhall. This whole anti burka campaign rests on the absurd insistance that women only wear it if they are being oppressed by men. This is simply not true. There are plenty of women around who freely choose to wear it and they don't necessarily even have a man in the household. Those who make this claim have no more moral authority than Muslim men who make up rules that deny women the choice of what to wear.

[quote]

My point was that NO woman who "voluntarily chooses to wear the burka" is VOLUNTARILY choosing to wear the burka.

And I challenge you to provide just ONE example of a woman who chooses to "voluntarily wear the burka" who doesnt have a man in the household demanding it.

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freediver

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Re: Burqua ban start on Monday
Reply #40 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 9:07pm

Quote:

My point was that NO woman who "voluntarily chooses to wear the burka" is VOLUNTARILY choosing to wear the burka.

So no means yes?

Quote:

And I challenge you to provide just ONE example of a woman who chooses to "voluntarily wear the burka" who doesnt have a man in the household demanding it.

Are you really that sheltered? When you grow up you will realise that no matter how absurd a choice is, there is always someone who will make it. Eventually you will realise that this is not a good reason to ban it.

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darkhall67

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Re: Burqua ban start on Monday
Reply #41 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 9:09pm

darkhall67 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 9:04pm:

[quote author=freediver link=1302320458/30#38 date=1302604090] [quote]Of course that's an apt analogy of what's going on in households where the burka is de rigueur .

No it is not darkhall. This whole anti burka campaign rests on the absurd insistance that women only wear it if they are being oppressed by men. This is simply not true. There are plenty of women around who freely choose to wear it and they don't necessarily even have a man in the household. Those who make this claim have no more moral authority than Muslim men who make up rules that deny women the choice of what to wear.

Quote:

My point was that NO woman who "voluntarily chooses to wear the burka" is VOLUNTARILY choosing to wear the burka.

And I challenge you to provide just ONE example of a woman who chooses to "voluntarily wear the burka" who doesnt have a man in the household demanding it.

Actually I retract my previous posts challenge.

it's an impossible one to set and therefore I'll amend it to challenge you to find any woman "voluntarily choosing to wear the burka" who is doing so without the edict of some patriarchal figure ( in the household or anywhere else) .

You challenged my use of the term "master" in one of my previous posts but do you know that there were some slaves who DIDNT want to be freed in the US?

It was all they knew. They believed the nonsense justifications that the ruling white MASTERS gave them concerning their slavery and the white mans dominion over them.i

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darkhall67

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Re: Burqua ban start on Monday
Reply #42 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 9:12pm

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 9:07pm:

Quote:

My point was that NO woman who "voluntarily chooses to wear the burka" is VOLUNTARILY choosing to wear the burka.

So no means yes?

Quote:

And I challenge you to provide just ONE example of a woman who chooses to "voluntarily wear the burka" who doesnt have a man in the household demanding it.

Are you really that sheltered? When you grow up you will realise that no matter how absurd a choice is, there is always someone who will make it. Eventually you will realise that this is not a good reason to ban it.

Thank Zeus that some people decided that despite the aforementioned content slaves opinions on their slavery , some things are MORE important.

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freediver

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Re: Burqua ban start on Monday
Reply #43 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 9:13pm

Quote:

You challenged my use of the term "master" in one of my previous posts but do you know that there were some slaves who DIDNT want to be freed in the US?

It was all they knew. They believed the nonsense justifications that the ruling white MASTERS gave them concerning their slavery and the white mans dominion over them.

Of course I know that. You are completely missing the point. Did you even read my response? I am not the one arguing for slavery. You are the one trying to take away people's fundamental rights. You are the one trying to discount what these women choose for themselves.

What if I want to maintain my own right to cover my face in public?

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darkhall67

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Re: Burqua ban start on Monday
Reply #44 - Apr 12^th, 2011 at 9:16pm

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 9:13pm:

Quote:

You challenged my use of the term "master" in one of my previous posts but do you know that there were some slaves who DIDNT want to be freed in the US?

It was all they knew. They believed the nonsense justifications that the ruling white MASTERS gave them concerning their slavery and the white mans dominion over them.

Of course I know that. You are completely missing the point. Did you even read my response? I am not the one arguing for slavery. You are the one trying to take away people's fundamental rights. You are the one trying to discount what these women choose for themselves.

What if I want to maintain my own right to cover my face in public?

I dont think I am missing the point.

Thank Zeus that some people decided that despite the aforementioned content slaves opinions on their slavery , some things are MORE important.

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