freediver wrote on May 1^st, 2011 at 6:09pm:




Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 30^th, 2011 at 12:10pm:




FD,

So if a particular group of people ascribe certain 'rights' to themselves, you are OK with that group of people pursuing those rights, because, they are 'rights' ???

i.e. defending 'rights', is virtuous.



FD,

Here is an imperative, a 'right', which ISLAM ascribes to moslems, and which moslems DO 'exercise'...


hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

A 'right' which moslems do 'exercise', even when moslems live among non-moslems ???

Google;
uk moslem honour killings


FD,

#1, Your OK for moslems to live among us.
#2, Your OK for moslems to, assert themselves as moslems, as moslems are want to do [i.e. it is OK for moslems to 'assume' their 'right' to kill those persons who offend their religion, e.g. by leaving it.]???
#3, Moslems can 'assert' themselves [i.e. be good moslems, while living among us] because moslems have 'rights' ?


I come back to my argument about the wisdom, of assuming, in this PC world, that it is ok for 'sheep' and 'wolves' to share the same 'meadow'.

The opinion of many, is that it is OK.

I disagree.

I say that 'sheep' and 'wolves' need to be separated.

I have avoided referring to the religious aspect of this debate, and concentrated on the fact that I believe our society is one in which we are not comfortable having people go about their daily lives in masks, and I still believe that, but I should be honest and acknowledge that I also object to the veiling of women because of religious and cultural beliefs also.

I disbelieve the arguments that these women freely choose to make the independent decision to hide themselves completely from society.

I accept that some of them honestly believe that it is their choice, but I also believe they have lost the ability to make a truly independent personal decision because of the religious and cultural restraints that have been imposed upon them.

I believe they have the right to freely display their religious, and cultural beliefs, only up to the point where it has an unwarranted negative impact upon them, the society they live in, or both.

freediver wrote on May 2^nd, 2011 at 10:14am:




FD,

But moslems DO have a 'lawful' right, to murder those who offend their religion.

This is no 'frivolous', 'made up', right.

Allah gives all moslems that right.

And he is their God.

IMAGE





FD,

#1, Your OK for moslems to live among us     [see image above].
#2, Your OK for moslems to, assert themselves as moslems, as moslems are want to do [i.e. it is OK for moslems to 'assume' their 'right' to kill those persons who offend their religion, e.g. by leaving it.]???
#3, Moslems can 'assert' themselves [i.e. be good moslems, while living among us] because moslems have 'rights' ?






A REALITY, WHICH MANY PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO CONFRONT....

Quote:


Google it.

n.b.
"Killing infidels is a small matter to us"

freediver wrote on May 2^nd, 2011 at 10:35am:


I fully agree with you, in principle, that we should allow people as much freedom as possible, to make their own decisions, right, or wrong.
With regard to the impact of the veil, for me it is a sign of male domination over women, which I do not want condoned in any way, it is also a validation for extremists like the Taliban, who will slash, acid burn, and murder, women who challenge their authority to have women always hide themselves, and every western woman who comes forward claiming it is her choice to wear the veil, is assisting the Taliban in their systematic torture and repression of women.
There is also the factor of fear and mistrust, between muslims and western society, and wearing masks in public only helps to reinforce that separation and exacerbate the feelings of fear and mistrust which could have been diminished with something as simple as an open smile.

mozzaok wrote on May 2^nd, 2011 at 10:59am:


So what do you suggest?

Also, how does it help the Taliban? I expect it would undermine them as it shows that even in the west Muslims can do it their way.

Quote:


Yadda they do not have the legal right to do that in the UK.

freediver wrote on May 2^nd, 2011 at 10:14am:



Not that I ever claimed a right to rip off their veils. WHat I actually claimed was the right not to deal with them while they are covering their faces. But as Jack Straw's experience showed, that right is not readily recognised.

freediver wrote on May 2^nd, 2011 at 1:41pm:




Yes FD,

It is so, so, unjust for people like myself, to despise ISLAM.
And so unjust for people like myself, to seek to 'oppress' moslems, by seeking to make moslems accountable for the consequences of their own choices, and for the consequences of their own fascist worldview .
/sarc off




Yadda said...
A moslem, is a person who chooses to embrace a philosophy [ISLAM] which tells moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to kill those who do not believe, as they believe.





ISLAMIC scholar, Sayyid Qutb