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ban all 'religious' clothing (Read 19518 times)
freediver
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Re: ban all 'religious' clothing
Reply #90 - Apr 25th, 2011 at 1:57pm
 
Quote:
what's the difference ?? Religion is an ideology !!


I am not sure what you are asking nail. Do you not know the difference between rejecting an ideology and trying to ban it?

Quote:
I don't credit it with 'good' that's your job.


Sorry, I meant to credit it only with the bad is intellectual laziness.

Quote:
You said I'd ban something new every day. I haven't


I did not mean to imply you had the power to ban things. However, you do keep coming up with new ideas for bans every day. You also keep avoiding any clarification on it.  Are you now saying you oppose all bans, including the burqa? Note that conceding that you have no chance of getting your way is not the same as opposing a ban. It just means you would wait until someone comes along who would ignore the 'practical difficulties' you keep referring to but won't explain.

Quote:
Why would an old bag wear these sorts of clothes ??


It is none of your business nail. People do not have to justify their choice of clothing to you.

Quote:
LOL What practical purpose does it serve other than to


Nail, in case you hadn't noticed, most of our clothes ceased lond ago to be anything about being practical. This is no justification for a ban.

Quote:
Why should muslims have special privileges


They don't. Everyone is free to choose what to wear. Choosing something different to you is not a special privilege unless you believe in government imposed conformity.
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Bobby.
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Re: ban all 'religious' clothing
Reply #91 - Apr 25th, 2011 at 6:08pm
 
Dear Freediver -
if the French can ban it - so can we.
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freediver
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Re: ban all 'religious' clothing
Reply #92 - Apr 25th, 2011 at 6:19pm
 
I am not doubting our ability. I am questioning whether doing so is a good idea.
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Bobby.
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Re: ban all 'religious' clothing
Reply #93 - Apr 25th, 2011 at 6:27pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 25th, 2011 at 6:19pm:
I am not doubting our ability. I am questioning whether doing so is a good idea.


Well - let's see what happens in France & if all's well -
then repeat it here.
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Soren
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Re: ban all 'religious' clothing
Reply #94 - Apr 25th, 2011 at 6:28pm
 
We shouldn't ban it everywhere. We just shouldn't respect it.

We should ban it in public places like government offices, banks, schools, universtities. We should allow other places with dresscodes to ban it, like cinemas, clubs, museums, shops.
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« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2011 at 9:18pm by Soren »  
 
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Grey
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Re: ban all 'religious' clothing
Reply #95 - Apr 25th, 2011 at 9:09pm
 
Quote:
I did not mean to imply you had the power to ban things. However, you do keep coming up with new ideas for bans every day. You also keep avoiding any clarification on it.  Are you now saying you oppose all bans, including the burqa? Note that conceding that you have no chance of getting your way is not the same as opposing a ban. It just means you would wait until someone comes along who would ignore the 'practical difficulties' you keep referring to but won't explain.


The trouble with your thinking Free is that you're an idealogue. You have a fundamentalist faith in principles. I think we share the same principles in general but on this matter of the burqa...I'm not so sure a ban is unthinkable. I think B the B's idea is the most sensible. Let's see what happens in France.
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Re: ban all 'religious' clothing
Reply #96 - Apr 25th, 2011 at 10:01pm
 
Tongue Tongue

Grey - - 
what ?the French???.

Remember the Rainbow Warrier.
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freediver
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Re: ban all 'religious' clothing
Reply #97 - Apr 25th, 2011 at 10:08pm
 
Quote:
I think we share the same principles in general

Lets be specific then. How about freedom of choice?

Quote:
I'm not so sure a ban is unthinkable.


Are you trying to say you are still making up your mind?

Quote:
I think B the B's idea is the most sensible. Let's see what happens in France.


If aliens landed there tomorrow, what would it tell you about the burqa ban? If a woman got arrested merely for her choice of clothing, what would that tell you?  If a terrorist blew up the eiffel tower, what would it tell you? Are you and bobby suggesting that we cannot forsee the immediate outcome, or perhaps that we will be able to make some kind of generalisation about every single flow-on effect? Why do you need an experiment to see what happens when you ban something?
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Re: ban all 'religious' clothing
Reply #98 - Apr 25th, 2011 at 11:56pm
 
Emma wrote on Apr 24th, 2011 at 1:45am:
wicked - Last Nail- hope you are proven correct!!!!!!!!

But  - to truly end an epoch of cruelty, repression and control......

BAN RELIGION!.... ALTOGETHER!!!





Our Western style of justice system is derived from, developed from, the Judaeo-Christian religions.

e.g.
Matthew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
[Leviticus 19:18]

Religions are systems of laws, essentially.

What you are calling for is the abandonment of law.

I am not surprised.






Emma wrote on Apr 24th, 2011 at 1:45am:
TOLERANCE is the only viable path.



IMO, the call today for 'TOLERANCE', is another expression, another call, for the abandonment of law [i.e. judgement].



I have not the slightest doubt, you will not agree, you will not concede my argument, but what you are calling for, is lawlessness.

And, look around you.

Look at the nightly TV news.....the world of man today, is full of lawlessness [i.e. 'tolerance',   ....of evil].

And on your own head be it.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: ban all 'religious' clothing
Reply #99 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 12:23am
 
Infection or cancer, cannot take hold and spread in vital, healthy flesh.
We remain healthy while our body remains vital and 'clean'.
We remain healthy while our body has the capacity to clease itself of the toxins produced by the processes that occur within a living organism.
Infection and cancer, take hold in a 'polluted' body ['polluted' usually due to overconsumption].
Infection and cancer will kill the host, when a body no longer has the capacity to clease itself of those toxins produced by the processes that occur within a living organism.


+++

freediver wrote on Apr 24th, 2011 at 8:07pm:
Quote:
Oh, but compromise in islam is the end of islam.


Fine by me. Compromise on freedom is the end of freedom - not fine by me.



Yes, compromising freedom [liberty] is fine by you FD.



+++

ISLAM is a cancerous philosophy, ISLAM is a cancer which feeds upon the 'body' of humanity - wherever it finds a polluted ['tolerant', morally sick] body.
To wit, 'tolerant' people like yourself, propose that our 'body' should defend the rights of good moslems.
Though ISLAM's intention, and the intent of moslems [often openly declared], is to destroy other systems of law, and to subsume within itself all authority in law, and authority over all people.
i.e.
The essential [and always denied] intent of those moslems who come to live among us, is to destroy the political 'environment' which facilitates and which 'gifts' to you, the right of 'individual choice', a right which you claim to cherish.
[If you challenge that last assertion, please, point to any majority moslem society where those rights, of individual choice, are protected.]

Illogically, you propose to defend the rights of those, who would destroy those same rights, of individual choice.
To wit...
IMAGE...
...
"Freedom of expression GO TO HELL"


The 'logic' you embrace, is that you propose to defend the rights of those, who's only intent is to destroy YOUR rights, and intend to become your oppressor.

It is as though you hold a box of matches in your hands, and declare;
"It is wrong to burn down a house. And that is why i will not burn down this house."
But then, you choose to give your box of matches to a person who wishes to burn down the house.
Illogical.


FD, you are expressing a false virtue.
In that you seem to see nothing wrong with giving moslems the means, to destroy the political 'environment' which facilitates, your own right of 'individual choice'.
When i say 'false virtue', i mean to convey the total lack of 'proper' discernment, in your worldview.


When we choose to 'gift' to moslems, the right of 'individual choice', moslems will begin to express that right of 'individual choice', in a way which they [moslems] will seek to remove that same right of 'individual choice' from others.....as per;
IMAGE...
...
All good moslems express the view, that the right of 'individual choice' must not include the right to scrutinize, or criticise, or to reject ISLAM


n.b.
That last image DOES display moslems engaging in their right of 'freedom of expression',
...because, TO ALL GOOD MOSLEMS, the right of 'freedom of expression', also DOES embrace the moslem right to promote incitement to murder those who 'insult' ISLAM!


FD, [whether you will admit it, or not] in defending the right of 'individual choice' for moslems, you are implicitly defending a right of moslems, to murder those who reject ISLAM's authority.


FD, you are sick ['polluted'].
The proof that you are sick, is that you are happy to defend, and to host the contagion, that would destroy the body which gives you life.


+++

The Western world will be overwhelmed,  will be destroyed, and  will be subsumed by moslems.

Why so ???

Because those who are 'tolerant', those who are 'virtuous' [like yourself] will allow ISLAM to achieve its ambition.

Because there are so many among us, who are convinced that to appease ISLAM, is the best path forward.


+++

Revelation 17:1
And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

Revelation 17:6
And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
7  And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

Revelation 17:15
And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16  And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17  For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Emma
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Re: ban all 'religious' clothing
Reply #100 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 12:41am
 
I commend you Yadda.

In truth - not by the Holy Books - i recognise the dangers in embracing one's enemies.  IF we forget they are enemies.   I say KNOW your enemies.
Let them walk freely amongst us - and Watch . Be on guard.

But don't deny they are human, as we are. Do you say that if you were born into a Moslem family, you would still believe as you do now?.

You would say - no - I would believe as I was taught, by my family, my creed, my society.   As I DO.

We're all the product of our cultural up-bringing.  Imagine how hard it would be if we were raised in isolation. 
WHAT is TRUTH? 
Truth has many faces.



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Emma
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Re: ban all 'religious' clothing
Reply #101 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 1:07am
 
and Yadda
what else is there to say?

This has been ON since Mohammed rose as 'prophet',  as - a son to God. Or Allah, as He is also known.

Having  never fully read the Bible, just bits and pieces, despite being raised in a Christian country - a member of the Commonwealth,  - and having never been made to read religious texts, having never been christened, having felt nothing but abhorrence for religious fundamentalism, I interact with such as yourself with some awe.  WOW!
An existence I could never experience, not being grounded as you are in this belief system.
Don't even know if your quotes are from the Bible !!
- don't really care either, ..
though - I have to say as a 'Woman", it sure sounds like it Angry>

Yet - isn't Yadda -  Yadda yadda yadda - the yank version of Blah Blah Blah??
Huh Roll Eyes
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It_is_the_Darkness
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Re: ban all 'religious' clothing
Reply #102 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 1:14am
 
...and the Moslems will do to the French,
what the Germans did to the Jews.

After which the Jew will 'unite' with his Moslem peoples and say:
"Now lets get those bloody Italians!"
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Re: ban all 'religious' clothing
Reply #103 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 1:25am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 25th, 2011 at 9:16am:

I reject all of these evil things. But I am not a hypocrit. I do not substitute other people's evil for my own. I do not use the actions of people centuries ago to justify the denial of fundamental human rights. I do not even use the actions of modern muslims to justify the denial of freedom of religion. I do not try to ban political parties merely because I can associate their ideology with some historical evil.




Yadda paraphrases FD....

"I do not make assumptions about the actions of wolves, to justify the denial of the fundamental right of wolves to mingle with other creatures in the meadow. I would never seek to separate wolves from sheep, just because the suggestion has been made, that wolves might prey upon, and eat the sheep. Wolves should have the same rights as sheep do, to enjoy the meadow."


+++



ISLAM, is essentially a criminal organisation.

A 'wolf', which preys upon mankind.

Wherever it has the 'opportunity', ISLAM always threatens, and often kills, those who oppose or criticise its aims and its 'temporal' or secular [worldly] authority.

ISLAM portrays itself [to many who do not know it] as a religion.

But, imo, ISLAM is essentially a political philosophy, which 'religiously' justifies the use of terror and violence to achieve its aims.

IMAGE
...
Moslem 'entitlement' expressed.





Yadda wrote on Apr 21st, 2011 at 1:47pm:

From what i know, from my study, of ISLAM's own texts, and doctrines, i would confidently make this statement;

Every good moslem in Australia [and indeed, every good moslem on the planet], by **self declaring** as a moslem, is self declaring a criminal intent [by our laws] against local non-moslems.


Every moslem!

Every non-moslem should be aware and recognise, that ISLAM is in fact, a criminal compact among moslems, to wage a violent 'religious' war against ALL non-moslems ['unbelievers'].


And in my estimation, every good moslem **does understand** what his/her **religious** OBLIGATION is, to ISLAM, and to fellow moslems.






e.g.....

Quote:

Here, for example, are two very illuminating passages from the canonical Life of Mohammed by Ibn Ishaq, as translated by A. Guillaume, and a third passage, from the earliest known Muslim historian.

Ishaq: 204 - "'Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man [Muhammad]?' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.'"

Ishaq:231 - "Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders."

And here is Al-Tabari, a very early Muslim historian, in book 9, chapter or section 69, reporting words that Muslims believe to have been said by Mohammed himself - "Killing infidels is a small matter to us".

These texts are not fossils from a distant past. They are not dead letters. They are still 'live' and carry tremendous weight in the imagination and practice of many Muslims around the world.
...DDA




Google it.

n.b.
"Killing infidels is a small matter to us"







IMO, no good moslem is a worthy person to live in a country like Australia.

IMO, any person who self declares,

"I am a moslem. Allah is my God. ISLAM is my religion."

....should be removed, expelled from Australia.






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Emma
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Re: ban all 'religious' clothing
Reply #104 - Apr 26th, 2011 at 2:45am
 
you make me think Yadda.

Clearly, from an historical viewpoint, you are correct - Islam seeks to make this world wholly Islamist. 
Witness to this is the fact that Islam rose to dominance, thru war, as far west as Spain, at least> Which leaves?? christian knights and their multitudinous slaves,  to repel this onslaught.   As they did. A LONG TIME AGO.
Architecture alone attests to this.

BUT- this is an ageless conflict, and very likely , as today!, the conflict will continue. 

But- given the roots are so old, - why can't WE - here in C21, reconcile our differences/>??

I'll tell you why.
We are animals - 2 legs BAD.  We are BAD ANIMALS. Trying to justify our BADNESS by calling on a 'god' as justification.

Eternal conflict is OUR right. Nothing else do we inspire.



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