Australian Politics Forum - Re: Christian faith and Jewish laws

Yadda

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Re: Christian faith and Jewish laws
Apr 19^th, 2011 at 12:13pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 11:58am:

Though Christianity was birthed from Jewry, the jewish laws are not applicable to Christians.

There is a recognition of the laws (10 Commandments and many more laws in the OT), but christians are not beholden to them.
Or to the penalty for breaking them thereof.

Sprint,

Was Jesus a 'Jew', or, a 'Christian', or, a righteous man ???

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 John 2:28
And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

+++

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

If there is a God, and if God is the master [creator] of us all, shouldn't we be trying to please our master ?

How ?

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Which commandments ???

Jesus was explicit...

Matthew 19:17
.... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The man Jesus was Torah observant, and a Torah teacher.

Why did Jesus quote OT law, so often ???

Jesus was Jewish, i.e. he considered himself bound by the law of Moses.

Why ???

Because the law of Moses, are God's laws [....they are not 'Jewish' laws].

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Galatians 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The OT law 'was our schoolmaster' ???

Except, if we continue to live 'after the flesh', then we are still, under the schoolmaster of the law.

The spirit of God teaches us, we should separate ourselves from the world, and seek God's righteousness.

The spirit of God will not 'touch' the unrepentant soul, the one who loves the world, the one who is 'of the world'.

The man who 'walks after the flesh'.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:5
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

John 8:23
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

+++

God will judge us not just on our [publicly declared] morals and beliefs, but by the way we act.

And here is a concept, a truth, which i believe;

What we believe, will always determine how we act.

Our actions in this world, are a reflection of what our morals and beliefs are.

And our actions, confirm our morals and beliefs.

"It is the life that is obedient to God and separated from the world that provides the proof of one's conversion."

A life obedient to God???

Jesus wasn't speaking to 'Jews', or to 'Christians'.

Jesus speaks to all who should [to please God] seek to be righteous, i.e. all of us.

Psalms 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Christian faith and Jewish laws
Reply #1 - Apr 19^th, 2011 at 12:28pm

Yadda wrote on Apr 19^th, 2011 at 12:13pm:

Galatians 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The OT law 'was our schoolmaster' ???

Except, if we continue to live 'after the flesh', then we are still, under the schoolmaster of the law.

1 Timothy 1:9
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars...

Psalms 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Sprintcyclist Moderator Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40717 Gender:	Re: Christian faith and Jewish laws Reply #2 - Apr 19^th, 2011 at 12:35pm yadda - in amongst the 49 pages of quotes, did you ask a question ? just ask it, without the 49 pages and I'll answer it.
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Yadda

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Re: Christian faith and Jewish laws
Reply #3 - Apr 19^th, 2011 at 1:43pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 19^th, 2011 at 12:35pm:

yadda - in amongst the 49 pages of quotes, did you ask a question ?

just ask it, without the 49 pages and I'll answer it.

Sprint,

I need to set out my argument with reasoning, and proofs.

And yes, that takes space.

An argument without proof, is an OPINION.

And imo, many people have opinions.

But imo, [uninformed] opinions, are worthless.

Luke 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Sprintcyclist Moderator Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40717 Gender:	Re: Christian faith and Jewish laws Reply #4 - Apr 19^th, 2011 at 1:53pm uhuh - so no questions or discussions ? it's the yadda way or we get steamrolled by c&p en masse
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Yadda

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Re: Christian faith and Jewish laws
Reply #5 - Apr 19^th, 2011 at 2:11pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 19^th, 2011 at 1:53pm:

uhuh - so no questions or discussions ?

it's the yadda way or we get steamrolled by c&p en masse

I thought that the purpose of forums such as this, was that it was a place to make arguments, and to then engage in debate with others, to support our point of view.

If you choose to refuse to engage in debate, on the merits of your argument, that is your choice.

Sprint made the claim....
Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 11:58am:

Though Christianity was birthed from Jewry, the jewish laws are not applicable to Christians.

There is a recognition of the laws (10 Commandments and many more laws in the OT), but christians are not beholden to them.
Or to the penalty for breaking them thereof.

Yadda rebuts....

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Sprintcyclist Moderator Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40717 Gender:	Re: Christian faith and Jewish laws Reply #6 - Apr 19^th, 2011 at 2:24pm so do you think christians are beholden to jewish laws then, yadda?
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Yadda

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Re: Christian faith and Jewish laws
Reply #7 - Apr 19^th, 2011 at 2:57pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 19^th, 2011 at 2:24pm:

so do you think christians are beholden to jewish laws then, yadda?

'Jewish laws' ???

Read your Bible.

"Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?...
Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me."
Matthew 15:2-9

+++

Or do you mean the 'Jewish laws', like the OT law, the law given by God ???

What did Jesus teach ???

Matthew 22:36
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Quoted by Jesus, directly from the OT.
see,
Deut 6:5
Leviticus 19:18

Psalms 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Sprintcyclist Moderator Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40717 Gender:	Re: Christian faith and Jewish laws Reply #8 - Apr 19^th, 2011 at 3:06pm is that a "yes", or a "no" ?
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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21690 A cat with a view	Re: Christian faith and Jewish laws Reply #9 - Apr 19^th, 2011 at 3:29pm Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 19^th, 2011 at 2:24pm: so do you think christians are beholden to jewish laws then, yadda? In the best traditions of Sir Humphrey Appleby, my reply to such a question is; Yes. and, No.
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Yadda

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Re: Christian faith and Jewish laws
Reply #10 - Apr 19^th, 2011 at 3:33pm

Yadda wrote on Apr 19^th, 2011 at 3:29pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 19^th, 2011 at 2:24pm:

so do you think christians are beholden to jewish laws then, yadda?

In the best traditions of Sir Humphrey Appleby, my reply to such a question is;

Yes.

and,

No.

p.s.

I could explain that response, but you wouldn't appreciate my verbosity.

So i won't burden you with my thoughts.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Sprintcyclist Moderator Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40717 Gender:	Re: Christian faith and Jewish laws Reply #11 - Apr 19^th, 2011 at 8:55pm you are correct, i don't appreciate your verbosity. Quote: All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one. Matthew 5:37
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Sprintcyclist Moderator Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40717 Gender:	Yadda and jewish laws2 Reply #12 - Apr 20^th, 2011 at 8:24am here you are yadda, just so you don't muddy the other thread. plse continue on your discussion
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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21690 A cat with a view	Re: Christian faith and Jewish laws Reply #13 - Apr 20^th, 2011 at 7:38pm Christian faith, or, Jewish laws ??? How about simple repentance, and contrition before God ? What Yadda thinks, but way, way, too verbose.... *"God despises man's religion"* http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1256090277/0#0
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Sprintcyclist Moderator Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40717 Gender:	Re: Christian faith and Jewish laws Reply #14 - Apr 20^th, 2011 at 9:40pm yes, a genuine repentance works. It leads immediately to a deep heartfelt contrition. To make an omelette, a few shells have to be broken
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