Australian Politics Forum - Muslims: think first before you immigrate

salad in

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Muslims: think first before you immigrate
Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 8:43am

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Derek Fenton, Koran-burning transit worker fired from his job after Ground Zero protest, re-hired

A Koran-burning New Jersey Transit worker, fired for his protest near Ground Zero last Sept. 11, is getting his job back - along with an extra $25,000 for his troubles.

[...]

Earlier, the 11-year NJ Transit employee released a defiant statement.

"Our government cannot pick and choose whose free speech rights are protected, based on whether or not they approve of the context of our statements or actions," Fenton said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/04/22/2011-04-22_derek_fenton_koranburning_transit_worker_fired_from_his_job_after_ground_zero_pr.html

Muslims and others who are driven by a desire to experience FREEDOM should think upon the chance of being offended when some person decides to burn their alleged holy book, the Qur'an.

It appears that some US officials, including State Governors, never studied the USA Constitution.

Do muslims have the right to protest? Yes. Do denizens of Western countries have the right to protest about islam and its totemism? Yes.

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The ALP, the progressive party, the party of ideas, the workers' friend, is the only Australian political party to roast four young Australians in roof cavities. SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!

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abu_rashid

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Re: Muslims: think first before you immigrate
Reply #1 - Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 9:59am

Perhaps Western governments fear that such stupid displays actually damage their interests in the Muslim world?

After all, if U.S citizens keep burning holy books, Saudi citizens are going to start asking their government why they flog all their oil off so cheap to the U.S... better to keep them docile and open handed no?

Personally I think it's great, as it will wake the Muslim masses up to the reality of the relationship their sold out leaders are engaged in.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49253 At my desk.	Re: Muslims: think first before you immigrate Reply #2 - Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 11:16am Some some guy burning a Koran in New York will awaken the Muslim masses on the other side of the world to what their own government is doing?
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abu_rashid

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Re: Muslims: think first before you immigrate
Reply #3 - Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 11:46am

It obviously already is. These kinds of open acts, are causing Muslims everywhere to reject their governments' alliances with the West, and to demand they step down from power. They might not be the sole motivating factor, but they're certainly part of it. Many Muslims, until recently have been deluded into thinking the West were their friends and well wishers... that is all changing of late, dramatically.

And for the better if you ask me.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Muslims: think first before you immigrate
Reply #4 - Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 2:05pm

Anyway I think this entire thread is moot, since it seems like the vast majority of growth within Australia's Muslim community, and probably America's too is going to be through means other than immigration. Conversion and higher birth rate will probably contribute far more in the long run to the growth of Muslims in Western countries than immigration will. Especially since the conversion rate seems to be snowballing, as more and more people embrace Islam, it raises the profile of the religion amongst their compatriots.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49253 At my desk.	Re: Muslims: think first before you immigrate Reply #5 - Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 2:07pm Abu, do you think this is a fair immigration policy? http://www.ozpolitic.com/sustainability-party/immigration.html
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abu_rashid

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Re: Muslims: think first before you immigrate
Reply #6 - Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 3:41pm

I think it's a naive immigration policy, as it assumes that the only people who have qualms with democracy are illegal immigrants trying to get in here. The fact is most of the asylum seekers trying to get in here have no problem with democracy, the vast majority of people who have a problem with it are probably born here.

Also it makes the assumption that you can effectively screen for such things. If someone really has a desire to sneak in here and destroy democracy from within (as your delusion would have it), then wouldn't they also have no qualms about lying to get in to do it?

The idea that immigration policies have any relevance to religious extremism is just childish at best.

Not to mention the fact that the idea religious extremism is a problem is also pretty way off. If you're referring to Muslims here (as it seems you are), then until you wake up and realise the problem is not religion, it's Western aggressions against the Muslim world, then you're not going to be able to accurately analyse the situation.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96233 Gender:	Re: Muslims: think first before you immigrate Reply #7 - Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 3:59pm Yes, but what about the claims that these primative Muslim types want to get in and destroy the place because they are inherently backward and tinted? You must admit, they present a pretty sound argument.
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Foolosophy

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Re: Muslims: think first before you immigrate
Reply #8 - Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 4:01pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 3:59pm:

Yes, but what about the claims that these primative Muslim types want to get in and destroy the place because they are inherently backward and tinted? You must admit, they present a pretty sound argument.

Thats what these original owners of this land said when the pale face invaded with guns, violence, disease and theft

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freediver

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Re: Muslims: think first before you immigrate
Reply #9 - Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 5:11pm

Quote:

it assumes that the only people who have qualms with democracy are illegal immigrants trying to get in here.

No it doesn't. It has nothing to do with the 'queue jumper' debate. If they are illegals then they are already here illegally.

Quote:

If someone really has a desire to sneak in here and destroy democracy from within (as your delusion would have it), then wouldn't they also have no qualms about lying to get in to do it?

You tell me Abu. For many people, the opposition to democracy is part of a broader ideology that is also opposed to lying. As someone who opposes democracy, how would you handle this situation if you ever found yourself in it?

Quote:

The idea that immigration policies have any relevance to religious extremism is just childish at best.

One of the advantages of the proposed policy is that it is not about religion.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal

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Re: Muslims: think first before you immigrate
Reply #10 - Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 5:39pm

Foolosophy wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 4:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 3:59pm:

Yes, but what about the claims that these primative Muslim types want to get in and destroy the place because they are inherently backward and tinted? You must admit, they present a pretty sound argument.

Thats what these original owners of this land said when the pale face invaded with guns, violence, disease and theft

http://www.khanfactor.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/aboriginals_1906.jpg

Not exactly. At first they made friends with the paleface. It wasn't until about 8 years later that things started turning sour.

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Foolosophy

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Re: Muslims: think first before you immigrate
Reply #11 - Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 9:15pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 5:39pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 4:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 3:59pm:

Yes, but what about the claims that these primative Muslim types want to get in and destroy the place because they are inherently backward and tinted? You must admit, they present a pretty sound argument.

Thats what these original owners of this land said when the pale face invaded with guns, violence, disease and theft

http://www.khanfactor.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/aboriginals_1906.jpg

Not exactly. At first they made friends with the paleface. It wasn't until about 8 years later that things started turning sour.

You mean it was only until about 1780 that the poisoning of the water holes, random shootings, land dispossesion, child thefts, rapes etc commenced.

There should be a blue and white ribbon run right around this entire continent

Australia is one big crime scene

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Belgarion Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 5446 Gender:	Re: Muslims: think first before you immigrate Reply #12 - Apr 24^th, 2011 at 8:23am The ignorance of some people regarding the history of Australia is incredible.
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Karnal

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Re: Muslims: think first before you immigrate
Reply #13 - Apr 24^th, 2011 at 11:14am

Foolosophy wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 9:15pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 5:39pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 4:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 3:59pm:

Yes, but what about the claims that these primative Muslim types want to get in and destroy the place because they are inherently backward and tinted? You must admit, they present a pretty sound argument.

Thats what these original owners of this land said when the pale face invaded with guns, violence, disease and theft

http://www.khanfactor.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/aboriginals_1906.jpg

Not exactly. At first they made friends with the paleface. It wasn't until about 8 years later that things started turning sour.

You mean it was only until about 1780 that the poisoning of the water holes, random shootings, land dispossesion, child thefts, rapes etc commenced.

There should be a blue and white ribbon run right around this entire continent

Australia is one big crime scene

You need to understand something of which you're talking before you talk about it. You raise an important point, but discussing it in terms of "invasion" and "the entire continent" disguises what really happened.

You also objectify Aboriginals by portraying them as chained, subdued masses. Many resisted as warriors, but equally importantly, many came into white settlement and contributed to it.

If Australia is one big crime scene, Aboriginals are equally on trial for being, in many cases, complicit. If it's one big crime scene, EVERYBODY's on trial, and this is the problem with your argument.

All the things you mention happened. How this is aknowledged and accounted for as history is important - the stories need to be told. But to essentialise this as the entire Australian story, I think, covers other truths which are equally important.

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Foolosophy

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Re: Muslims: think first before you immigrate
Reply #14 - Apr 24^th, 2011 at 9:08pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 24^th, 2011 at 11:14am:

Foolosophy wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 9:15pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 5:39pm:

[quote author=Foolosophy link=1303512206/0#8 date=1303538518][quote author=Karnal link=1303512206/0#7 date=1303538344]Yes, but what about the claims that these primative Muslim types want to get in and destroy the place because they are inherently backward and tinted? You must admit, they present a pretty sound argument.

You need to understand something of which you're talking before you talk about it. You raise an important point, but discussing it in terms of "invasion" and "the entire continent" disguises what really happened.

You also objectify Aboriginals by portraying them as chained, subdued masses. Many resisted as warriors, but equally importantly, many came into white settlement and contributed to it.

If Australia is one big crime scene, Aboriginals are equally on trial for being, in many cases, complicit. If it's one big crime scene, EVERYBODY's on trial, and this is the problem with your argument.

All the things you mention happened. How this is aknowledged and accounted for as history is important - the stories need to be told. But to essentialise this as the entire Australian story, I think, covers other truths which are equally important.

This is NOT the only photo I have of early Aboriginal-Paleface interaction, but it is one photo that encapsulates the White washing of this continent's violent and immoral History. It is also one of many photos that the main stream media avoids showing the Australian public.

So I will have to post it again

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