Australian Politics Forum - Exactly why and where Islam is wrong

Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Exactly why and where Islam is wrong Apr 27^th, 2011 at 12:01am
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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #1 - Apr 27^th, 2011 at 9:10am

Lisa Jones wrote on Apr 27^th, 2011 at 12:01am:

Its morality is not where it's wrong, it is its metaphysics. It pins its belief system on untenable and unprovable metaphysics.

To criticize it from a moral angle will often fail. For every crime a Muslim commits, a similar Western example can be brought forth. Abu is very good at doing this; this is his point of departure every time someone criticizes Islam.

Where it needs to be attacked is its epistemological and ontological base. If you cut out its roots the tree dies. This is why Christianity is mostly now a laughing stock in the West; its metaphysics have repetitively been critiqued over the last 200 years, often by some of the most intelligent minds that have been produced, and been replaced with a secular outlook, however flawed that may be.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49069 At my desk.	Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong Reply #2 - Apr 27^th, 2011 at 5:58pm http://www.ozpolitic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Islam_and_Australian_values
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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong Reply #3 - Apr 27^th, 2011 at 7:37pm freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2011 at 5:58pm: http://www.ozpolitic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Islam_and_Australian_values I might bookmark that link actually. Its content is very well structured.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49069 At my desk.	Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong Reply #4 - Apr 27^th, 2011 at 7:41pm Thanks. If you see any errors please let me know. Or get yourself an account and edit it yourself.
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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong Reply #5 - Apr 27^th, 2011 at 7:51pm freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2011 at 7:41pm: Thanks. If you see any errors please let me know. Or get yourself an account and edit it yourself. Ok .. will do.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49069 At my desk.	Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong Reply #6 - Apr 27^th, 2011 at 8:53pm If there are any gaps in the explanations, just ask Abu to clarify. He is keen for people to know about the real Islam.
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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong Reply #7 - Apr 27^th, 2011 at 9:08pm freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2011 at 8:53pm: If there are any gaps in the explanations, just ask Abu to clarify. He is keen for people to know about the real Islam. Indeed he is.
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Lestat Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1403	Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong Reply #8 - Apr 28^th, 2011 at 9:07am lol. Dumb and dumber....
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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong Reply #9 - Apr 29^th, 2011 at 11:08pm Indeed
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Belgarion

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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #10 - Apr 30^th, 2011 at 12:46am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 27^th, 2011 at 9:10am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Apr 27^th, 2011 at 12:01am:

Its morality is not where it's wrong, it is its metaphysics. It pins its belief system on untenable and unprovable metaphysics.

To criticize it from a moral angle will often fail. For every crime a Muslim commits, a similar Western example can be brought forth. Abu is very good at doing this; this is his point of departure every time someone criticizes Islam.

Where it needs to be attacked is its epistemological and ontological base. If you cut out its roots the tree dies. This is why Christianity is mostly now a laughing stock in the West; its metaphysics have repetitively been critiqued over the last 200 years, often by some of the most intelligent minds that have been produced, and been replaced with a secular outlook, however flawed that may be.

I find myself almost agreeing with you Time. at least as far as the metaphysics goes. The Islamic moral issue is something else though.

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

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abu_rashid

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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #11 - Apr 30^th, 2011 at 7:50am

Time's post seems to admit, by default, that Christianity is susceptible to such attacks, Islam however is a completely different story.

Hence the reason the centuries long ideological attack hasn't worked in the Muslim world, in fact it's driven the Muslims stronger into their beliefs, hence it being followed up by severe military attacks.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #12 - Apr 30^th, 2011 at 1:50pm

abu_rashid wrote on Apr 30^th, 2011 at 7:50am:

Time's post seems to admit, by default, that Christianity is susceptible to such attacks, Islam however is a completely different story.

Hence the reason the centuries long ideological attack hasn't worked in the Muslim world, in fact it's driven the Muslims stronger into their beliefs, hence it being followed up by severe military attacks.

Christianity was susceptible because it allowed its foundations to be questioned. This was its biggest mistake. As soon as Luther nailed his theses to the church door and the clergy gave him concessions, it was all over for Christianity. Protestantism took the power away from the clergy and gave it over to 'the people'.
It is also a pertinent point that Christianity's cultivation of truthfulness lead to its own decline. The search for 'truth' lead to the church's 'truths' to be questioned for their validity. Once the texts of antiquity were reintroduced, Christianity's 'truths' could no longer stand up to scrutiny. Rarely can 'truths' be maintained in the face of honest skepticism.
When Islam allows rigorous, honest, investigation of its own 'truths', then it will fall. But, if it maintains a closed system of belief that keeps referring back to its presuppositions to justify itself (they call this circular reasoning) then it will continue to stand.

The moral is if you want to 'keep your faith', don't think.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #13 - Apr 30^th, 2011 at 3:32pm

abu_rashid wrote on Apr 30^th, 2011 at 7:50am:

Time's post seems to admit, by default, that Christianity is susceptible to such attacks, Islam however is a completely different story.

Indeed it is Abu!

Again .. exactly why and where Islam is wrong .. and why it is a completely different story!

WARNING: THIS IS SHOCKING AND WILL CAUSE DISTRESS.

http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011/04/muslims-burn-homosexuals-alive.html

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« Last Edit: Apr 30^th, 2011 at 3:40pm by Lisa Jones »

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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abu_rashid

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Re: Exactly why and where Islam is wrong
Reply #14 - Apr 30^th, 2011 at 3:44pm

Time,

Quote:

Protestantism took the power away from the clergy and gave it over to 'the people'.
It is also a pertinent point that Christianity's cultivation of truthfulness lead to its own decline.

This just highlights the vast differences between Islam & Christianity then doesn't it. Islam from day one shunned the idea of clergy, and instead insisted the people themselves be knowledgeable about their religion.

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