Karnal wrote on May 3
rd, 2011 at 10:49am:
#1, But support for mass murder is not Islamic. It goes against every tennant of Islam and is not what the Prophet taught.
#2, Bin Laden is not a martyr. Martyrs are killed defending their faith.
#3, Bin Laden was waging an offensive war against both the West and Muslims. The Al Qaeda slaughter of Shi'ites in Iraq showed what those under Bin Laden are all about - Al Qaeda is a political movement, not a spiritual one.
I know this is stating the bleeding obvious, but it needs framing within the context of Islam.
You are making a lot of unsubstantiated assertions there Karnal.
Just more unsupported by evidence, pronouncements of Karnal.
#1, The moslem religious war [Jihad] is against all ['unbelieving'] mankind who resist ISLAM's authority.... Quote:
Here, for example, are two very illuminating passages from the canonical Life of Mohammed by Ibn Ishaq, as translated by A. Guillaume, and a third passage, from the earliest known Muslim historian.
Ishaq: 204 - "'Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man [Muhammad]?' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.'"
Ishaq:231 - "Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders."
And here is Al-Tabari, a very early Muslim historian, in book 9, chapter or section 69, reporting words that Muslims believe to have been said by Mohammed himself - "Killing infidels is a small matter to us".
These texts are not fossils from a distant past. They are not dead letters. They are still 'live' and carry tremendous weight in the imagination and practice of many Muslims around the world.
...DDA
Google it.
n.b.
"Killing infidels is a small matter to us"#2, 'Defending ISLAM', is 'propagating' ISLAM, using violence, and terror - it is commanded by Allah.".....I have been given superiority......;
I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies):
spoils have been made lawful to me:"
hadithsunnah/muslim/ #004.1062
"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods;
for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise):
they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:..."
Koran 9.111
v. 9.111, in its guarantee of paradise to those who
"fight in His cause, and slay and are slain" for Allah, is clearly encouraging the 'martyrdom' of moslems, in 'the Cause of Allah'.
"A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." "hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.065
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.080i
#3, Killing 'lapsed' moslems who are not [devout] moslems, is not only permitted, IT IS COMMANDED, BY ALLAH.
Allah's law declares that moslems must never knowingly kill another
moslem.
"......If a man kills
a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him."
Koran 4.092, 93
But killing backsliding moslems is OK....read on...
WHAT THE KORAN HAS TO SAY, ABOUT APOSTATES
[i.e. 'secular' moslems, also termed 'the Hypocrites']
"Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.
They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;- "Koran 4.88-89
i.e. apostates, 'secular' moslems, 'the Hypocrites',
ARE TO BE TREATED AS THOUGH THEY WERE NON-MOSLEMS.
"O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers
and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed."
Koran 9.73
Koran 66.9
In ISLAM, in the Koran, 'Hypocrites' is 'code' for moslems, who are not moslems.
They should be killed.
"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260
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