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democratic rights (Read 5836 times)
allgoodfun
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Re: democratic rights
Reply #15 - May 5th, 2011 at 1:24pm
 
I'm amused reading this thread. IT seems to mirror the atheism thread in its pedantic attention to the minute in total exclusion of any rational thought or discussion of substance.

'Democratic Rights' are easily understood by those who wish to understand them. They are in fact clearly obvious to anyone who WANTS to understand but also clearly oblivious to that who dont.

I could repeat Soren's argument or construct my own but it is quite obvious that FD merely wants to argue rather than debate. And so the discussion becomes circular and pointless because some people are incapable of understanding.
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Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: democratic rights
Reply #16 - May 5th, 2011 at 3:48pm
 
.....testing........
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Yadda
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Re: democratic rights
Reply #17 - May 5th, 2011 at 3:50pm
 
allgoodfun wrote on May 5th, 2011 at 1:24pm:
I'm amused reading this thread. IT seems to mirror the atheism thread in its pedantic attention to the minute in total exclusion of any rational thought or discussion of substance.

'Democratic Rights' are easily understood by those who wish to understand them. They are in fact clearly obvious to anyone who WANTS to understand but also clearly oblivious to that who dont.

I could repeat Soren's argument or construct my own but it is quite obvious that FD merely wants to argue rather than debate. And so the discussion becomes circular and pointless because some people are incapable of understanding.





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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1302408399/4#4


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
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freediver
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Re: democratic rights
Reply #18 - May 5th, 2011 at 6:41pm
 
Quote:
'Democratic Rights' are easily understood by those who wish to understand them. They are in fact clearly obvious to anyone who WANTS to understand but also clearly oblivious to that who dont.


So why can't Soren explain them or even give an example? Can you?
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Soren
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Re: democratic rights
Reply #19 - May 6th, 2011 at 10:19am
 
freediver wrote on May 5th, 2011 at 6:41pm:
Quote:
'Democratic Rights' are easily understood by those who wish to understand them. They are in fact clearly obvious to anyone who WANTS to understand but also clearly oblivious to that who dont.


So why can't Soren explain them or even give an example? Can you?



I have explaind it, I have given you links of others explaining it. So what you should have written, FD, is : "If I can't understand any of the various explanations Soren has provided, nor any of the explanations in the links he has given - what makes you think I will understand anything you have to say??" That would have covered it more exactly.


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longweekend58
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Re: democratic rights
Reply #20 - May 6th, 2011 at 11:48am
 
Soren wrote on May 6th, 2011 at 10:19am:
freediver wrote on May 5th, 2011 at 6:41pm:
Quote:
'Democratic Rights' are easily understood by those who wish to understand them. They are in fact clearly obvious to anyone who WANTS to understand but also clearly oblivious to that who dont.


So why can't Soren explain them or even give an example? Can you?



I have explaind it, I have given you links of others explaining it. So what you should have written, FD, is : "If I can't understand any of the various explanations Soren has provided, nor any of the explanations in the links he has given - what makes you think I will understand anything you have to say??" That would have covered it more exactly.




That adult voting is a democratic right is obvious. The way FD argues I am not sure he believes ANYTHING actually exists.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Re: democratic rights
Reply #21 - May 6th, 2011 at 11:31pm
 
Longy I asked if 'democratic rights' was limited to voting. Do you think it is?

Quote:
I have explaind it


You have tried, but you can't even come up with a single example, and even a primary schooler could yiou identify your explanations as circular reasoning. Saying they are democratic becuase you  sssociate them with democracy is about as far from an explanation as you can get. Even Abu has a better grasp of democracy than you.
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Soren
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Re: democratic rights
Reply #22 - May 7th, 2011 at 12:07pm
 
freediver wrote on May 6th, 2011 at 11:31pm:
Longy I asked if 'democratic rights' was limited to voting.



No you did not.

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Soren
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Re: democratic rights
Reply #23 - May 7th, 2011 at 12:23pm
 
freediver wrote on May 6th, 2011 at 11:31pm:
You have tried, but you can't even come up with a single example, and even a primary schooler could you identify your explanations as circular reasoning. Saying they are democratic becuase you  sssociate them with democracy is about as far from an explanation as you can get. Even Abu has a better grasp of democracy than you.



I gave you a couple of examples of democratic rights, voting (participating in the democratic process) was one, the age of consent was another. All your civil rights are democratic rights in a democracy. Your civil rights in a feudal society (Saui Arabia) are not democratic rights. There is absolutely no circularity in my argument, either about democratic rights or about the different sources of rights and the different manifestation of rights (positive, negative). You are just too much of a fathead to grasp any of it.

I gave you links in support of my argument (Stanford, the NSW Board of Studies) which have also supplied a number of exmples showing the variety of types of rights, democratic being one of them. But you probably do not undestand any of it so you come up with idiotic assertions about ad populum and Abu.

Naturally, you haven't told us what your idea of rights is (apart from the government letting you cross dress). I very much doubt you would have a cohesive notion beyond that.




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longweekend58
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Re: democratic rights
Reply #24 - May 7th, 2011 at 12:41pm
 
Soren wrote on May 7th, 2011 at 12:23pm:
freediver wrote on May 6th, 2011 at 11:31pm:
You have tried, but you can't even come up with a single example, and even a primary schooler could you identify your explanations as circular reasoning. Saying they are democratic becuase you  sssociate them with democracy is about as far from an explanation as you can get. Even Abu has a better grasp of democracy than you.



I gave you a couple of examples of democratic rights, voting (participating in the democratic process) was one, the age of consent was another. All your civil rights are democratic rights in a democracy. Your civil rights in a feudal society (Saui Arabia) are not democratic rights. There is absolutely no circularity in my argument, either about democratic rights or about the different sources of rights and the different manifestation of rights (positive, negative). You are just too much of a fathead to grasp any of it.

I gave you links in support of my argument (Stanford, the NSW Board of Studies) which have also supplied a number of exmples showing the variety of types of rights, democratic being one of them. But you probably do not undestand any of it so you come up with idiotic assertions about ad populum and Abu.

Naturally, you haven't told us what your idea of rights is (apart from the government letting you cross dress). I very much doubt you would have a cohesive notion beyond that.






FD's ridiculous and pedantic posturing of late has been worse than usual.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Re: democratic rights
Reply #25 - May 7th, 2011 at 1:07pm
 
Soren wrote on May 7th, 2011 at 12:07pm:
freediver wrote on May 6th, 2011 at 11:31pm:
Longy I asked if 'democratic rights' was limited to voting.



No you did not.



Here you go Soren:

freediver wrote on May 4th, 2011 at 4:32pm:
Quote:
The vote is a democratic right, ie a right created by law, not by 'nature', like your human rights which are supposedly yours regardless the laws of your country.


So democracy itself is the only 'democratic right'?


Quote:
I gave you a couple of examples of democratic rights, voting (participating in the democratic process) was one, the age of consent was another.


The age of consent is a right? Please explain. Also, it seems to me that only the process of arriving at the number is democratic, but the same age of consent could just as easily happen under dictatorship.

Quote:
All your civil rights are democratic rights in a democracy.


So it is not a property of the rights in any way? You could have the same rights in some other place and you would give them a different label?

If a democracy took those rights away, would they still be democratic rights, or would the right not to do it then become a democratic right?
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: democratic rights
Reply #26 - May 7th, 2011 at 1:10pm
 
How is it democratic to force people to the poll through threats of fining them?

You do realize how perplexing and surprising that is to my American colleagues and British family that Australia does this?
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longweekend58
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Re: democratic rights
Reply #27 - May 7th, 2011 at 1:13pm
 
freediver wrote on May 7th, 2011 at 1:07pm:
Soren wrote on May 7th, 2011 at 12:07pm:
freediver wrote on May 6th, 2011 at 11:31pm:
Longy I asked if 'democratic rights' was limited to voting.



No you did not.


Here you go Soren:

freediver wrote on May 4th, 2011 at 4:32pm:
Quote:
The vote is a democratic right, ie a right created by law, not by 'nature', like your human rights which are supposedly yours regardless the laws of your country.


So democracy itself is the only 'democratic right'?


Quote:
I gave you a couple of examples of democratic rights, voting (participating in the democratic process) was one, the age of consent was another.


The age of consent is a right? Please explain. Also, it seems to me that only the process of arriving at the number is democratic, but the same age of consent could just as easily happen under dictatorship.

Quote:
All your civil rights are democratic rights in a democracy.


So it is not a property of the rights in any way? You could have the same rights in some other place and you would give them a different label?

If a democracy took those rights away, would they still be democratic rights, or would the right not to do it then become a democratic right?


I would suggest you go back to school for a refresher in basic reading and comprehension. You certainly did NOT defend sorens claim.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Soren
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Re: democratic rights
Reply #28 - May 7th, 2011 at 11:05pm
 
freediver wrote on May 7th, 2011 at 1:07pm:
So it is not a property of the rights in any way? You could have the same rights in some other place and you would give them a different label?

If a democracy took those rights away, would they still be democratic rights, or would the right not to do it then become a democratic right?



Jesus wept or what?  Are you out to lunch permanently? Putting a question mark after gibberish makes it a question in your mind? Is this something peculiar to QLD? (is that below the belt?) Rights are varied - does this offend your sense of self?
Comprehending that we do not have the same rights in every place and time is a challenge for you? Insisting that the only rights are the ones that are unchanging across time and space is your schtick? Do you think asking vapid questions all the time will stop people seeing how devoid of ideas you are?

Hello??

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Re: democratic rights
Reply #29 - May 8th, 2011 at 9:43am
 
I am merely pointing out that the concept of democratic rights is meaningless.
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