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OBL: any day now... (Read 4232 times)
Earle Qaeda
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Re: OBL: any day now...
Reply #15 - May 6th, 2011 at 12:40pm
 
All good stuff Grey.

Grey wrote on May 6th, 2011 at 10:51am:
They're only ever motivated by self interest and 'hearts and minds' stuff just confuses them.

So what motivates everyone else?

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the world actually needs a globalised police force under UN control.

Would it look anything like NATO? Uncoordinated. Overstretched. Disinterested. A tool.

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It also needs a stable global currency free from speculation

Now you're gettin' somewhere. Same could be said for stock markets. Reduce them to their basic purpose of raising & securing investment capital. Let them survive merely on their member company's performance rather than their gambling potential. Boring  I know, but the casinos could take up the slack.

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If our freedoms are being erroded and if scant progress is being made towards a more egailtarian playing field we only have ourselves to blame...     A million people took to the streets in London against the Iraq war, demonstrated peacefully and went home. They should've stayed on the streets and laid siege to Downing street until Blair resigned.

Compared to the resolve shown by the Arab Spring we certainly are a buch of gutless wonders. A sure sign of that is our acceptance of "protest zones" behind chain link fences at least a mile from a protest target. Either that or we genuinely have nothing to protest about.

I sense a debate about protest coming on.... Like what is the purpose of the big P? Just to say 'hey, I'm angry about something'? Or to actually effect change - hopefully peacably.
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muso
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Re: OBL: any day now...
Reply #16 - May 6th, 2011 at 10:52pm
 
Grey wrote on May 6th, 2011 at 10:51am:
the world actually needs a globalised police force under UN control. There's no place for crack pot despots in the 21stC. It also needs a stable global currency free from speculation, universal health care and children free from poverty and crappy education systems.


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Grey
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Re: OBL: any day now...
Reply #17 - May 7th, 2011 at 2:10pm
 
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I sense a debate about protest coming on.... Like what is the purpose of the big P? Just to say 'hey, I'm angry about something'? Or to actually effect change - hopefully peacably.


I think we need to move beyond protest. We need a proper grass roots democracy that elects represntatives that aren't preselected by one of the two main gangs. People need to understand that GET UP isn't grass roots democracy, it's just another player run by a hierarchy. We need to build communities not gangs.

I think China should invite KJ2 for a cup of tea, put him under arrest for crimes against humanity and take control of Noeth Korea's military prior to handing it over to Seoul.

China doesn't want more territory, if it did it wouldn't have a one child policy. It does need cred on the humanities and it does need a large trading partner. China could fix that N.K problem without a voice being raised in anger and have the world cheering in a week.
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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb
 
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mickey rat
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Re: OBL: any day now...
Reply #18 - May 7th, 2011 at 5:59pm
 
Excellent OBL obit in the Guardian this week - still the best newspaper in the world IMO.
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Grey
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Re: OBL: any day now...
Reply #19 - May 8th, 2011 at 10:07am
 
I wouldn't accept the account as definitive. The setting up of Al Quaeda in full co-operation with the CIA as a training and co-ordinating facility for the mujahadeen has been the subject of plausable accounts for many years and this is the first time I've seen it denied. The very idea that 'the CIA had no contact with such figures', is frankly daft. At the time the CIA's game plan was to send the USSR broke by clandestinely backing the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan. Contact with figures like Bin Laden was basic to that.

For decades I wouldn't have heard a word against the Guardian. It's not the paper it was in the sixties, there's an element of pragmatism that has emerged since its campaign to take a stake in the American market.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-obituary?intcmp=239

Read diligently. British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook is sober.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#Alleged_CIA_involvement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_theories_of_Al-Qaeda#Jihad_in_Afghanist...
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« Last Edit: May 8th, 2011 at 10:23am by Grey »  

"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb
 
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mickey rat
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Re: OBL: any day now...
Reply #20 - May 8th, 2011 at 8:05pm
 
I still think the Guardian obit was pretty good, although obviously cobbled together in a hurry it provided a potted history with no obvious bias IMO. The "CIA had no contact with such figures" statement suggests to me the CIA were probably dealing with people they thought were significant at the time, al-Qaida and Bin Laden not emerging until later, a year or so before the Soviets left. Robin Cook's observation that al-Qaida and Bin Laden were "a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies" is true, but the operative words are "a product", something that developed from that miscalculation. However I agree with you that the Guardian is not the paper it once was. My dad always extolled the quality of the old Manchester Guardian. Like you probably, I’ve been reading the international edition for many years and have noticed with each physical decrease in size it’s become more like the website version with shorter, eye-catching articles. It definitely ain't what it was, but I still prefer it to most of the competition.
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