Emma wrote on Jul 15^th, 2011 at 9:49pm:



jalane,

Belief in God, is all about dogma, following dogma ?

And if there is a God, God is a God of dogma ???

Is that your opinion of God / religion ???

If there is a God, do you think that God respects those who follow religious 'dogma' ???

And if there is a God, do you think that God desires the worship, of sycophants ???

Is that what you think ?

That if there is a God, that God desires men to crawl before him, on their bellies ??


Dictionary;
sycophant = = a toady; a servile flatterer.

Dictionary;
servile = =
1 excessively willing to serve or please others.
2 of or characteristic of a slave or slaves.


Genesis 17:1
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.



+++

jalane,

My God does not desire the worship of sycophants, i am certain.

And clearly, many men today, do not understood that Christian admonition;




Deuteronomy 1:17
Ye shall not respect persons in judgment;...

Deuteronomy 16:19
Thou shalt not wrest judgment; thou shalt not respect persons, neither take a gift: for a gift doth blind the eyes of the wise, and pervert the words of the righteous.



'Bowing and scraping' sycophants, do not impress my God,
...the God of Israel.

Psalms 146:8
The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:



My God has given to all men a spirit which knows to do good, and to shun evil.

Yet, many men delight in doing evil.


My God, is a God who loves RIGHTEOUSNESS.


Psalms 11:4
The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.
5  The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.


+++


It is a favourite tactic of many people today, that when they encounter something compelling [or truthful], but something which nevertheless challenges them [and because it perhaps challenges their worldview], that they will choose to malign, and misrepresent something which has merit [as being of little worth].

And perhaps you have recognised, that that, is the very same tactic which is being used to great effect, today, against the Jewish people.
....by those who have absolutely no regard for what is true.

In some ways, i see that as being very ironic.

And it seems to be in our [mankind's] nature, that we invariably choose to despise and to reject truth, whenever we recognise that truth will not serve our own desire(s), or 'interests'.


+++


Psalms 4:5
Offer the sacrifices of righteousness, and put your trust in the LORD.


Psalms 10:3
For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.
4  The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.
5  His ways are always grievous; thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them.
6  He hath said in his heart, I shall not be moved: for I shall never be in adversity.


Psalms 40:4
Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.


Malachi 3:13
Your words have been stout against me, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, What have we spoken so much against thee?
14  Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the LORD of hosts?
15  And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.
16  Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
17  And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18  Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 16^th, 2011 at 9:12pm:



gizmo,

I choose to obey those O.T. laws, as best i can [see Romans 7:14-23], BECAUSE I SHOULD.

BUT, i am not Jewish.
i.e. I do not view myself as being 'compelled' by THAT covenant, which the Children of Israel agreed to.

BUT, but, i am 'compelled' to [try to] act righteously, otherwise God will [rightly] regard me as just another [self serving] wicked person.


+++

I am a student of the Bible.

How i view those O.T. laws, is that those laws revealed through Moses, teach man how to approach righteousness.

And imo, those O.T. laws do teach man ethical behaviour.

And, [i believe that] that was their purpose.

To my understanding, God's laws [those O.T. laws] were divided into two two very specific groups of laws, and were 'targeted' against two very specific groups of 'miscreants',
1/ [all] common criminals,
2/ and covenant breakers [among God's covenant people].

And some of the sanctions against criminals and covenant breakers [among God's covenant people] were VERY harsh?

Yes.

I know that many, many, people today, may 'violently' disagree with some aspects of OT Bibles laws.

I can understand such a 'perspective'.

Q.
How can i reconcile a loving God, with such harsh judgements ???

A.
I do not want to live in a criminal society / community.
i.e. I do not want to live in a society which tolerates criminality, and injustice, and violence.
To achieve a crime free community, imo it is clear, that criminals must be brought to account for the consequences of their own choices.
And, i am fully in accord with such a paradigm.

Deuteronomy 19:19
.....so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.


+++

As for such laws [those harsh, 'constrictive' O.T. laws] being supported, or endorsed by some Christians today,
....in the gospels, Jesus taught us, to respect those laws, those O.T. laws.

Jesus said....

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Who's commandments ???
see Matthew 19:16-19

FACT;
Jesus was a Torah law teacher.

It is clear that the man Jesus, was Jewish, and that he was Torah observant,
i.e. as a man, Jesus considered himself bound by the laws of Moses.

e.g.
Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for not obeying the law [given by God] in not putting certain criminals [according to God's law] to death.

Matthew 15:3
But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4  For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5  But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6  And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7  Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8  This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9  But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


Jesus also said;

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19  Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Which commandments ???

"Thou shalt do no murder,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Honour thy father and thy mother."
Matthew 19:16-19

All of those commandments, above, were quoted by Jesus, directly from the book(s) of the law, the Torah,
Exodus 20:12-16
Deuteronomy 5:16-20




What is the purpose of God's laws ???

Why do we need to respect God's laws ???

Matthew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Yadda wrote on Jul 16^th, 2011 at 5:23pm:


Nice. The humilitas in you comes out from time to time. You're not a bad Bible thumper sometimes  

Funny how the "small a atheists" always seek the big T theists for a sense of superiority.

Its the coward "small a atheists" idea of dialectic.

And visa versa.

   FYI  -

I know evil exists --- I've seen it, ......experienced and survived it, ......- and it has nothing to do with the BIBLE, or any other religious tract.  Sorry about that.  Thats the facts JAK

It is ALL about people -   .... most foul.!

Words on paper can never show the innocent,  true evil.!!

One must experience it to believe it in their selves -  not argue about it as some academic idea.!!!

The Bible does serve as a warning, I see, but few understand that.

Emma wrote on Jul 18^th, 2011 at 12:43am:

I'd say an atheist discussing theological truths with a "Theist" is as pointless as speaking Greek to a chimp.

Emma wrote on Jul 18^th, 2011 at 12:43am:

Then why ask for clarification?

Reveleth thou in thine empty enigmata.

Emma wrote on Jul 18^th, 2011 at 12:55am:

A warning about what? Mistaking a rambling myth for truth?