Australian Politics Forum - The Problem of Evil

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48931 At my desk.	Re: The Problem of Evil Reply #15 - May 7^th, 2011 at 11:04am I don't think you know what a strawman is, but I won't ask you as that would obviously be a strawman.
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Sappho Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1406 Gender:	Re: The Problem of Evil Reply #16 - May 7^th, 2011 at 11:07am Sappho wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 11:01am: Freediver, why did you raise the question about whether Nature is Evil? What has that question got to do with the Problem of Evil as expressed in the first post? Are you going to answer the questions?
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freediver

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Re: The Problem of Evil
Reply #17 - May 7^th, 2011 at 11:14am

It was prompted by this statement from you:

Quote:

Take for example a young couple in the late 20s and much in love. They have committed no acts of evil. They marry, get pregnant and give birth to a profoundly intellectually disabled child which will burden them their whole life... is a burden to them as we speak.

I wanted to see where your logic got you if you attributed it to nature rather than God.

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freediver

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Re: The Problem of Evil
Reply #18 - May 7^th, 2011 at 11:16am

Also, suppose you got together a sufficiently large network of computers, created some genetic algorithms to mimic evolution, and let them run for so long that you ended up creating some form of consciousness. Would you be evil if you did not constantly interfere to make sure that not a single conscious entity suffered some kind of torment?

Would your creations be able to fathom your situation?

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Sappho

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Re: The Problem of Evil
Reply #19 - May 7^th, 2011 at 11:19am

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 11:14am:

It was prompted by this statement from you:

Quote:

Take for example a young couple in the late 20s and much in love. They have committed no acts of evil. They marry, get pregnant and give birth to a profoundly intellectually disabled child which will burden them their whole life... is a burden to them as we speak.

I wanted to see where your logic got you if you attributed it to nature rather than God.

But I did not attribute evil to nature, nor had I any intention of attributing evil to nature... so why raise it as an issue when the issue never existed? Why did you persist in exploring the idea of Nature being Evil when I had made it clear that that was not at issue, more than once?

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Sappho

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Re: The Problem of Evil
Reply #20 - May 7^th, 2011 at 11:22am

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 11:16am:

Also, suppose you got together a sufficiently large network of computers, created some genetic algorithms to mimic evolution, and let them run for so long that you ended up creating some form of consciousness. Would you be evil if you did not constantly interfere to make sure that not a single conscious entity suffered some kind of torment?

Would your creations be able to fathom your situation?

I can't answer this question until I understand what it has to do with a god that is all knowing, all powerful and morally perfect.

Are you suggesting that the creator of the program is all knowing, all powerful and morally perfect?

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freediver

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Re: The Problem of Evil
Reply #21 - May 7^th, 2011 at 12:57pm

Sappho wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 11:19am:

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 11:14am:

It was prompted by this statement from you:

Quote:

Take for example a young couple in the late 20s and much in love. They have committed no acts of evil. They marry, get pregnant and give birth to a profoundly intellectually disabled child which will burden them their whole life... is a burden to them as we speak.

I wanted to see where your logic got you if you attributed it to nature rather than God.

But I did not attribute evil to nature, nor had I any intention of attributing evil to nature... so why raise it as an issue when the issue never existed? Why did you persist in exploring the idea of Nature being Evil when I had made it clear that that was not at issue, more than once?

I meant if you attributed your example to nature, not your interpretation of it as evil.

Quote:

Why did you persist in exploring the idea of Nature being Evil

I'm not. I just asked a simple question.

Quote:

I can't answer this question until I understand what it has to do with a god that is all knowing, all powerful and morally perfect.

Are you suggesting that the creator of the program is all knowing, all powerful and morally perfect?

No. I am suggesting it is you.

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Sappho

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Re: The Problem of Evil
Reply #22 - May 7^th, 2011 at 1:41pm

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 12:57pm:

Sappho wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 11:19am:

I can't answer this question until I understand what it has to do with a god that is all knowing, all powerful and morally perfect.

Are you suggesting that the creator of the program is all knowing, all powerful and morally perfect?

No. I am suggesting it is you.

I am not all knowing, all powerful and morally perfect, therefore, The Problem of Evil does not apply. This thread is about The Problem of Evil

What is the point of your questions then since they clearly don't address The Problem of Evil?

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« Last Edit: May 7^th, 2011 at 2:04pm by Sappho »

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: The Problem of Evil
Reply #23 - May 7^th, 2011 at 2:10pm

Sappho wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 1:41pm:

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 12:57pm:

Sappho wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 11:19am:

I can't answer this question until I understand what it has to do with a god that is all knowing, all powerful and morally perfect.

Are you suggesting that the creator of the program is all knowing, all powerful and morally perfect?

No. I am suggesting it is you.

I am not all knowing, all powerful and morally perfect, therefore, The Problem of Evil does not apply. This thread is about The Problem of Evil

What is your point of your questions then since they clearly don't address The Problem of Evil?

And that's really the point to the problem of evil... It's impossible to reconcile the existence of an omniscient, omnipotent and omni-benevolent being and the existence of evil... In a universe governed by such a being, evil existing (let alone prevailing) must necessarily be impossible.

In a world where evil exists god can be any 2, not all 3, but only insofar as we believe that misfortunes or outrages that happen to humans are necessarily evil.

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Grey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5341 Gender:	Re: The Problem of Evil Reply #24 - May 7^th, 2011 at 2:16pm Or alternatively, if you could prove with absolute certainty that god didn't exist, then god wouldn't exist. If you could prove with absolute certainty that god DID exist, then god wouldn't exist.
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Sappho

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Re: The Problem of Evil
Reply #25 - May 7^th, 2011 at 2:24pm

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 12:57pm:

Sappho wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 11:19am:

But I did not attribute evil to nature, nor had I any intention of attributing evil to nature... so why raise it as an issue when the issue never existed? Why did you persist in exploring the idea of Nature being Evil when I had made it clear that that was not at issue, more than once?

I meant if you attributed your example to nature, not your interpretation of it as evil.

I have not interpreted nature to be Evil. I have never implied that nature is Evil. I have pointed this out too many times now. It is only you who have suggested that I have done that and give us no evidence to back up that suggestion.

Otherwise, are you suggesting that nature exists irrespective of god? Are you suggesting that god did not create nature? Are you suggesting that he has no power over nature?

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freediver

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Re: The Problem of Evil
Reply #26 - May 7^th, 2011 at 4:24pm

Sappho wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 1:41pm:

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 12:57pm:

Sappho wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 11:19am:

I can't answer this question until I understand what it has to do with a god that is all knowing, all powerful and morally perfect.

Are you suggesting that the creator of the program is all knowing, all powerful and morally perfect?

No. I am suggesting it is you.

I am not all knowing, all powerful and morally perfect, therefore, The Problem of Evil does not apply. This thread is about The Problem of Evil

What is the point of your questions then since they clearly don't address The Problem of Evil?

Sorry, I thought you were saying in your opening post that if God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect.

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freediver

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Re: The Problem of Evil
Reply #27 - May 7^th, 2011 at 4:26pm

Sappho wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 2:24pm:

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 12:57pm:

Sappho wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 11:19am:

But I did not attribute evil to nature, nor had I any intention of attributing evil to nature... so why raise it as an issue when the issue never existed? Why did you persist in exploring the idea of Nature being Evil when I had made it clear that that was not at issue, more than once?

I meant if you attributed your example to nature, not your interpretation of it as evil.

I have not interpreted nature to be Evil. I have never implied that nature is Evil. I have pointed this out too many times now. It is only you who have suggested that I have done that and give us no evidence to back up that suggestion.

I merely asked the question.

Quote:

Otherwise, are you suggesting that nature exists irrespective of god? Are you suggesting that god did not create nature? Are you suggesting that he has no power over nature?

Nature exists irrespective of what you believe regarding God.

Will we go through this every time I ask a simple question?

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: The Problem of Evil
Reply #28 - May 7^th, 2011 at 5:55pm

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 4:24pm:

Sappho wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 1:41pm:

freediver wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 12:57pm:

Sappho wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 11:19am:

I can't answer this question until I understand what it has to do with a god that is all knowing, all powerful and morally perfect.

Are you suggesting that the creator of the program is all knowing, all powerful and morally perfect?

No. I am suggesting it is you.

I am not all knowing, all powerful and morally perfect, therefore, The Problem of Evil does not apply. This thread is about The Problem of Evil

What is the point of your questions then since they clearly don't address The Problem of Evil?

Sorry, I thought you were saying in your opening post that if God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect.

Why don't you ask an honest question rather than pursue your usual exploitation of the unintended?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48931 At my desk.	Re: The Problem of Evil Reply #29 - May 7^th, 2011 at 6:29pm The unintended consequences are often the most significant.
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