NorthOfNorth wrote on May 8^th, 2011 at 10:12am:


Poor Job... he suffered so greatly because of a bet between god and satin. God won the bet... but then, he knew he would. God is all knowing.

What satin and god did to Job is a classic example of Evil afflicting the innocent.

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 8^th, 2011 at 10:28am:


So god is not morally perfect?

Sappho wrote on May 8^th, 2011 at 10:35am:

Not the Abrahamic god in my book (but then neither are the gods of the Hindu and Greek pantheons). However, for the Jew, Christian and Muslim, the question cannot be asked, because god cannot commit acts of evil... The sufferings that befall the individual or group, to the believer, are always earned/deserved. This is true also of Buddhism, where the existence of a god is generally not posited. Sufferings there are the result of one's karma, regardless of whether the sufferer can consciously remember the act that earned the suffering.

With believers, when it comes to explaining away their suffering, it always involves a neurotic obsession with not being abandoned by a deity or a pseudo-deific principle. Suffering, to the believer caught in this neurotic maelstrom, is shameful... The believer is like a child chastised by a parent, who must now face his peers and siblings, humiliated,  and be driven by his determination to prove to himself and the world that he is still loved by those great givers of life, sustenance and comfort, his parents.

Sappho wrote on May 8^th, 2011 at 9:56am:


I think if evil was impossible you would have a lot of trouble identifying anything good, beyond the mundane. There would be something less human about us.

Many religions teach that God does not deny his creation a perfect world, they just have to knowingly choose it. If you didn't consciously make this choice, how would you even know you were in heaven rather than just an incredibly boring place?

Freediver and Time are so close to the solution to this logical conundrum that I'll just tell you all.

Theologians would argue that we cannot know what good is, how good god is or how valuable good is without placing it in contrast with evil.

I find it a completely unacceptable solution... but it is a solution to the problem of evil nonetheless.

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 8^th, 2011 at 10:49am:


Sure it is asked, philosophically, by any thinking 'believer'.

Many of us could claim to have had instances of enlightenment [e.g. in meditation], but we [mankind] do not have the means, the wherewithal, the capacity, to understand what we may understand as the 'divine'.

We are essentially distracted by our interactions with the things, in this world.

I don't believe that it is possible to exist within this fleshly body, and from moment to moment, to comprehend more than brief glimpses of reality [beyond our own 'reality'].





NorthOfNorth wrote on May 8^th, 2011 at 10:49am:


I believe that.

Though, the Bible says that God does create evil.  Isaiah 45:5-7

[But the Bible also says that God does not test us beyond what we can reasonably bear.]

In my own limited perception of what God is, i would say that it is impossible for God to harbour evil within him.

[But i believe that in this creation,...] God has created a 'palate of colours'.

And then, we as individuals all choose which colours to include in our own 'compositions'.



Our suffering here, seems intense to us.

But our suffering here is momentary.

Hebrews 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7  If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9  Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10  For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11  Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.







NorthOfNorth wrote on May 8^th, 2011 at 10:49am:



"...when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:"
Galatians 4:1-7

helian,

You may claim that people who have 'spiritual experiences' are probably neurotic.

But isn't it just a tad arrogant of atheists to imagine that they [exclusively?] have a 'handle' on reality, based on mankind's present ['scientific'] knowledge and comprehension, based on the input their own senses ???

i.e.
Isn't grasping so tightly onto such a 'perception' arrogant, given that the actual 'reality' is, that we actually know so little about ourselves, and so little about the 'environment' that we find ourselves in ???




helian,

Are you a normal, rational person ???

Are you sure ???

Look at us, men [and women] driven by our desires, and our passions, and our hormones.

In my estimation, we [mankind] have proved ourselves to be highly irrational ['stressed'] creatures.



What is 'normal' ???

You are ???

Personally, i would say that we are all 'common'.

i.e.
We [mankind] all share these same circumstances.

But are you arguing, that there are many normal and rational people among us [among mankind] ???           

And people like yourself of course, would be a good 'representation' of what is, a 'normal' human being ???      




Q.
What do we [mankind] really know, about our 'circumstances' ???

A.
The truth is, almost nothing.





Yadda the 'neuron'.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 8^th, 2011 at 7:40pm:



Yes you can.

And [or, but ??? ], not in close proximity to each other.



I believe that in our world [within this 'reality'], both good and evil can find 'expression'.

This 'reality' is a 'construct' [err, ...a 'creation' even], where that 'expression', of both good and evil, is possible.
[...i believe].





But good and evil cannot co-exist within close proximity [i believe].

It is like, light and, darkness.

If something of the darkness were to approach light, it would be 'burned' up by the light.

If something of the light approached the darkness, it would be absorbed, 'corrupted', by the darkness.



'The light' is in the centre, the darkness surrounds the light, but is unable to overcome it.

At the centre of the light, is a 'presence', which we know as 'God'.




I want to live in the light.

I know what is in the darkness.

I do not want to live there!



That is my choice.

muso wrote on May 9^th, 2011 at 1:58pm:








LOL


May the force be with you muso.