Amadd wrote on Feb 1^st, 2013 at 7:58pm:


I don't see flat there. In fact what you have written it used today when people  describe something.

I will follow you to the ends of the earth
I will search the four corners of the earth for you

And they don't believe, using those phrases, that the earth is flat!

I can only recall one guy stating that the earth was flat, and that was a number of years ago when I was working at ******* and he was an atheist.
Swore black and blue that we lived on a flat earth.

I don't think there's too many people today who really believe in a flat earth, however, this was widespread common belief until the 4 or 5 hundreds.

It's obvious that this was also God's belief if the words of the bible are in fact written through God.

And of course the church will move the bar and try to somehow justify why God would speak as though the earth were flat, thereby lying to the masses.

And honestly, wouldn't you think that the almighty would tell humanity a little about the structure of the universe instead of making such science a sin?

Or is that just another of the "Lord works in mysterious ways" type things?

muso wrote on Feb 1^st, 2013 at 9:54pm:

Yes, like saying "Land dwelling mammal" is an accurate enough definition of humanity... Or the last to be said in philosophy is "the world is everything that is the case".

damien wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2013 at 8:25am:

OK, so you don't have a definition... It's a common problem for those defining Atheism as a religion...

damien wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2013 at 12:21pm:

Actually, I'm interested in your definition. If your intention was honest debate, you wouldn't have a problem with referring me to your quote.

Interesting that these replies of yours are the exact kind you object to from others.

damien wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2013 at 2:35pm:

Yes, you said that (what you said was : http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1304543494/334#334) and I then asked how that definition excludes politics or sport.

On the subject of 'shouting' ... http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1358839780/17#17

muso wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2013 at 4:38pm:

Yes... Like "I know what quality is, but now that you ask me, I don't".

But I think we mean something specific when we posit that atheism is (or isn't) a religion (in the way that legislators or demographers know what they mean specifically with the term 'religion').

My definition of 'religion', in the spirit (pardon the pun!) that I think it is intended here in this thread should include :

• Founded on a metaphysical proposition of which the believer does not necessarily require empirical evidence.
• Offers a complete and infallible explanation of cosmic creation.
• Defines the meaning of existence
• Posits a cosmic creator or creators or primary concept.
• Prescribes human conduct by associating physical sensibilities with moral imperatives as cosmic law.
• Requires submission, reverence and obedience to an unalterable doctrine.

muso wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2013 at 10:53am:

Mostly true, I'm sure.

But we use terms with regard to the vernacular of the culture in which we live.

When we ask the question 'Are you religious?' in general conversation, we nearly always mean something specific to our 'Western' roots... Being a definition that conforms largely to our Abrahamic cultural tradition.

Yes, of course, language can (and does) change including a culture's vernacular. But the term 'religion' still maintains its definition to the majority (as above) as used in Australia.

I'd guess that if you were a neo-Pagan or a Naturalist, you'd more than likely answer the question 'Are you religious', by qualifying the term... in the knowledge that the term has a specific meaning (even if you'd call it baggage) in this culture.

If this thread is about anything, its about questioning a parallel between atheism and theism... If religion means 'whatever' then everything is a 'religion' - rendering the word meaningless... Currently, in our vernacular, the term means something specific.

As Bill Maher quipped "Atheism is a religion, like abstinence is a sex position'.