Australian Politics Forum - Is Atheism a Religion?

NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Is Atheism a Religion? Reply #600 - Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:15pm muso wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 6:52pm: What about in largely atheistic societies such as parts of Scandinavia? They have no need of god... They've got the Sunday sauna.
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Yadda

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #601 - Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:20pm

muso wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 6:21pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 6:03pm:

There is no morality without religion. There is no example of an atheist society that has never had religion developing any moral code. None. Atheist morality is religious morality with god/s left out. You could not come up with a moral code out of atheism without having the inheritance of religion.

These guys must have been atheists then:
http://gracegems.org/D/evil_popes.htm

Quote:

Pope Alexander VI (1492-1503), called the most corrupt of the Renaissance Popes. He was licentious, avaricious, and depraved! He bought the Papacy; made many new cardinals, for money; had a number of illegitimate children, whom he openly acknowledged and appointed to high church office while they were yet children — who, with himself, murdered cardinals and others who stood in their way. Had for a mistress, a sister of a Cardinal.

Still, it's nice to look back on our religious cultural heritage. No?

Come on muso, you can hardly suggest that those persons, Popes as they were, were 'following' Jesus Christ.

Doesn't the Catholic Church refer to the Pope, as the Bishop of Christ ?

Titus 1:7
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;

What should be the 'nature' and inclination, of those persons that love God [....according to God's prophets] ???

Isaiah 1:16
Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

Jeremiah 22:3
Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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simonhall1900

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #602 - Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:28pm

freediver wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 9:54pm:

Isn't it discrimination to deny them recognition and equal trreatment before the law?

Why is it discrimination to deny them recognition or in fact any 'treatment' at all. Providing your actions do not cause discomfort, distress, or be construed as physically insulting, there is no law in this country which compels you to recognise an atheist or any other follower of a fad, religion or sect.

Maybe in Communist China........Iran etc.

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A: A puppy stops whining after it grows up.

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muso

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #603 - Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:47pm

Soren wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 6:03pm:

There is no morality without religion. There is no example of an atheist society that has never had religion developing any moral code. None. Atheist morality is religious morality with god/s left out. You could not come up with a moral code out of atheism without having the inheritance of religion.

Well there is one that I know of, but it's quite obscure. The Pirahã people of Brazil.

As an aside I wonder how they managed to survive without a system of morality?

Ha! caught you. You said religion when you really meant theistic religion. Was it a deliberate deception? Jain (you know - the Jains of India) society is effectively atheistic, and they have a highly developed system of morality. They reject the concept of a creator god, and incidentally they have the most successful business leaders in India.

Apart from that, they don't eat garlic, chilli or onions (crazy)

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« Last Edit: Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:55pm by muso »

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #604 - Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:53pm

muso wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:47pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 6:03pm:

There is no morality without religion. There is no example of an atheist society that has never had religion developing any moral code. None. Atheist morality is religious morality with god/s left out. You could not come up with a moral code out of atheism without having the inheritance of religion.

Well there is one that I know of, but it's quite obscure. The Pirahã people of Brazil.

As an aside I wonder how they managed to survive without a system of morality?

Yes, I was thinking of the Pirahã as well. The only society I know of without any concept of god... However, they do believe in spirits (forest, sky, evil spirits... All kinds)... So I'd say they have a concept of religion.

Quote:

Their only ornaments are simple necklaces made from seeds, teeth, feathers, beads, and soda-can pull-tabs, which they often get from traders who barter with the Pirahã for Brazil nuts, wood, and sorva (a rubbery sap used to make chewing gum), and which the tribe members wear to ward off evil spirits.

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Is Atheism a Religion? Reply #605 - Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:58pm Yadda wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:20pm: Come on muso, you can hardly suggest that those persons, Popes as they were, were 'following' Jesus Christ. Doesn't the Catholic Church refer to the Pope, as the Bishop of Christ ? Yes, and no true Scotsman would do such a thing.
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Sappho

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #606 - Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:59pm

Soren wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:05pm:

Atheist today are coming into the moral inheritance of their religious forebears.

That's exactly it Soren... a moral inheritance! And as such Atheists are not bound to it as are religious folk. Atheists can opt out, vary the significance or create new morality.

So whilst it is that religious folk abide by their morality, Atheists explore and expand their morality.

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muso

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #607 - Apr 27^th, 2013 at 8:01pm

Sappho wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:59pm:

That's exactly it Soren... a moral inheritance! And as such Atheists are not bound to it as are religious folk. Atheists can opt out, vary the significance or create new morality.

So whilst it is that religious folk abide by their morality, Atheists explore and expand their morality.

Thou shalt not stick thy finger in an electric socket and thou shalt not suffer thy children to do so.

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Is Atheism a Religion? Reply #608 - Apr 27^th, 2013 at 8:03pm Sappho wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:59pm: So whilst it is that religious folk abide by their morality, Atheists explore and expand their morality. And those religious folk who happen to be atheistic (eg Jains) do just fine.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #609 - Apr 27^th, 2013 at 8:04pm

muso wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:47pm:

Jain (you know - the Jains of India) society is effectively atheistic, and they have a highly developed system of morality. They reject the concept of a creator god, and incidentally they have the most successful business leaders in India.

Apart from that, they don't eat garlic, chilli or onions (crazy)

And, if William Dalrymple's account (Nine Lives) is accurate, their adherence to their moral code is absolute...

Quote:

A Jain nun tests her powers of detachment as she watches her best friend ritually starve herself to death.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #610 - Apr 27^th, 2013 at 8:12pm

Sappho wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:59pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:05pm:

Atheist today are coming into the moral inheritance of their religious forebears.

That's exactly it Soren... a moral inheritance! And as such Atheists are not bound to it as are religious folk. Atheists can opt out, vary the significance or create new morality.

So whilst it is that religious folk abide by their morality, Atheists explore and expand their morality.

True.

Such as accepting the 'golden rule' whilst rejecting the Christian mythos.

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muso

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #611 - Apr 27^th, 2013 at 8:19pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 8:12pm:

Sappho wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:59pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:05pm:

Atheist today are coming into the moral inheritance of their religious forebears.

That's exactly it Soren... a moral inheritance! And as such Atheists are not bound to it as are religious folk. Atheists can opt out, vary the significance or create new morality.

So whilst it is that religious folk abide by their morality, Atheists explore and expand their morality.

True.

Such as accepting the 'golden rule' whilst rejecting the Christian mythos.

Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.
—Udanavarga 5:18

Another religion where the concept of "God" is not relevant.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #612 - Apr 27^th, 2013 at 8:24pm

muso wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 8:19pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 8:12pm:

Sappho wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:59pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:05pm:

Atheist today are coming into the moral inheritance of their religious forebears.

That's exactly it Soren... a moral inheritance! And as such Atheists are not bound to it as are religious folk. Atheists can opt out, vary the significance or create new morality.

So whilst it is that religious folk abide by their morality, Atheists explore and expand their morality.

True.

Such as accepting the 'golden rule' whilst rejecting the Christian mythos.

Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.
—Udanavarga 5:18

Another religion where the concept of "God" is not relevant.

Yes... That's the other thing about the golden rule... It's universal.

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Soren

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #613 - Apr 27^th, 2013 at 10:24pm

Sappho wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:59pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:05pm:

Atheist today are coming into the moral inheritance of their religious forebears.

That's exactly it Soren... a moral inheritance! And as such Atheists are not bound to it as are religious folk. Atheists can opt out, vary the significance or create new morality.

So whilst it is that religious folk abide by their morality, Atheists explore and expand their morality.

Moral wealth not created by atheists but they are born into the wealth and luxury to explore, expand and play with.

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Yadda

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Re: Is Atheism a Religion?
Reply #614 - Apr 27^th, 2013 at 10:58pm

muso wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 8:01pm:

Sappho wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 7:59pm:

That's exactly it Soren... a moral inheritance! And as such Atheists are not bound to it as are religious folk. Atheists can opt out, vary the significance or create new morality.

So whilst it is that religious folk abide by their morality, Atheists explore and expand their morality.

Thou shalt not stick thy finger in an electric socket and thou shalt not suffer thy children to do so.

LOL

[pssst, don't anyone tell damien.]

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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