Soren wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 10:24pm:

About as vacuous as saying "English - Linguistic wealth not created by [insert non-Britons here] but they are born into the wealth and luxury to explore, expand and play with".

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 8:24pm:




No, it is not.

'Universal', in what sense ?

You mean, that all human cultures embrace it ?



Quote:

http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm?frm=5208&sec_id=5208






"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

I love this 'we are living in the end times' stuff by atheists. 'Religion is passing away NOW'. This is all an atheist can do, making his own times momentous by imagining that what has not happened for millennia is actually happening in his life time. Or starting to... We are witnessing important EVENTS.

All very ominous, all very Nostradamus. The historicist mind of atheists cannot comprehend that religion is not a historical phenomenon but a thing of human experience. They think it is imposed dogma (they are really anti-clerical, not anti- religious), all programming and schematic conspiracy. But it isn't.

The human experience, the individual, personal experience comes first. Dogma and clericalism may harness it, may straightjacket it but the experience is not invented by clericalism, is not invented by the scheming shaman, rabbi or priest.

Soren wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 11:31pm:


I don't dispute you Soren... History shows what happens to gods... They change as history changes. Your God has gone through many a change from Vengeance to Sacrificial Saviour to its current expression as Love. Even in ancient times, because of the exodus, your god experienced changes which saw the rise of Jew sects such as Samaritans who in themselves had a different focus on your god and were as disliked for it as were Jesus and John for their mystical take on Judaism.

Christianity now is a different beast to that which began in profound and powerful humility and obedience to god. It is different again from that which ushered in the dark ages promoting fear and punishment as a means of social control.

Today, Christianity is a confused thing... sometimes vengeful, sometimes dogmatic as with the Dinosaur Creationist Theme Park, sometimes glimmers of profound humility can be seen as with the Amish or Witnesses but most often Christianity of today more free of morality than ever before, profoundly capitalist, and shallow, offering little more than love, loving prayer, fake healing, oracle style blabbering and spirit world interventions as the answer to all the ills of the world.

Christianity of today bares no resemblance to that of Jesus' time... Epic lol, it's a veritable Sodom and Gomorrah (sex and drugs and rock and roll) out there in Christian lands... which is fine, because god is love and sent his only son to be sacrificed so that we can be saved from our sins.

It's a great time to be an Atheist living in a Christian nation. 

Yadda wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 11:45am:


Silly me... did I forget to mention the increase of agnostic priests who are in it for the community spirit rather than their souls salvation... or the fact that most Christians don't even know the New Testament let alone follow its teachings... ohhhh, what about bragging rights... Christians aint so meek when it comes to charity and salvation anymore... they like to back pat in church spruiking how wonderful they are whilst a sad and sorry family, which is the object of their self praise stand on as evidence of their charity. 

I love Christians... they are so harmless... so irreligious... so accommodating of what god is not... that it makes living amongst them like living with Hedonists.

Fricking Awesome!

As an aside... I was speaking with Witnesses the other day and I asked them...

If an Atheist who with ease can act morally, and to challenge themselves pursues a moral life, although not a Christian moral life... but a life of compassion nonetheless, helping those in need and acting with all goodness and decency most of the time... and iff your god existed as is a forgiving god... why would he refuse such a person the promises of the faiths... The Witnesses said that Jesus would not refuse such a person... So, said I, what motive is there for the likes of me to force myself into a belief that I struggle to hold? They had no answer... since salvation is mine whether I believe or not apparently.

Sappho wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 12:10pm:






Correct Sappho.            



Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35  But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.



Romans 2:11
For there is no respect of persons with God.
12  For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13  (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14  For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15  Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16  In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.





But just take it easy on that whiskey.         

Nothing to excess.         





+++




So what is the point of 'believing' then ?

Belief helps us, in our journey here.

i.e.
In this world, we are travelling in a [moral] 'wilderness', [mostly] separated from the influence of God's spirit.
[the prodigal son]

There are many distractions in this world, that can lead us into [what in God's eyes is] wicked behaviour/poor choices.

No ?

Faith, in God's righteousness and love, focuses us our attention, where God wants us to meditate.

Reading the Bible, focuses us our attention, where God wants us to meditate.i
You don't have-a-care about avoiding wickedness ???

Many do not.

OK.

Go your own path.
....but don't whine, when God brings you to account, for your poor choices.

Ah.

But God, does not exist.

Right ?



That is right, YOU are the arbiter of what is good, and what is evil.

What gives me pleasure, is good.

And what prevents me from experiencing pleasure, is evil/bad.

Right ?


[....and that is how the majority of mankind think/reason.    No ? ]







+++




God our creator, is clever.

And men are dumb [....'led' by their desires].








We are spiritual creatures/beings.

God is our 'father'/creator, we are the 'children'...

Proverbs 23:24
The father of the righteous shall greatly rejoice: and he that begetteth a wise child shall have joy of him.

Isaiah 1:2
Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.

Jeremiah 4:22
For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

muso wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 12:39pm:



There is more to human relations and morality than the golden rule.  Mythology, poetry, symbolism, fiction, meaning are not redundant.  None of them spring from atheism.

Atheism is utterly unimaginative - this is the point Tolkien made to CS Lewis and which finally made Lewis turn away from atheism in his mid-30s.
I have not gone as far as Lewis into religion but I too have turned away from atheism, around the same time in life and for the sudden realisation of that truth.

Atheism is drab and boring. Very thin gruel indeed.

Soren wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 1:03pm:

All this is just a strawman...

You rail against atheism as if it were the same as theism... Its not and, of course, you know it, because that fact, too, is the basis of your argument against atheism.

Atheism doesn't need to have anything much to say of itself any more than disbelief in Santa Claus doesn't necessarily require any more debate than a statement of disbelief.

Now, if you're talking about anti-theism... Well, that's a different story.