Australian Politics Forum - Chomsky on Bin Laden's murder

abu_rashid

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Re: Chomsky on Bin Laden's murder
Reply #15 - May 11^th, 2011 at 6:35am

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I think there was a need to have Bin Laden in a court of justice, in the witness box expressing his hatred and fanaticism to the world

This seems to be contrary to what those who've met him say about him. He is always described as a very calm, rational and lucid man, contrary to the media propaganda of him being some rabid raving lunatic. This is reported by both enemies and supporters alike.

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Sappho Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1406 Gender:	Re: Chomsky on Bin Laden's murder Reply #16 - May 11^th, 2011 at 7:19am Irrespective of what you Abu or Freediver says... Bin Laden had a right to justice and all humanity has a right to see justice being done. The 'Star Chamber' mentality is immoral and repugnant.
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Lestat

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Re: Chomsky on Bin Laden's murder
Reply #17 - May 11^th, 2011 at 9:29am

Belgarion wrote on May 10^th, 2011 at 5:31pm:

It is a war, Bin Laden was an enemy combatant. Chomsky may wail and moan all he likes but there was no legal requirement to do anything other than what was done.

So when Bin Laden strikes the S11 towers which housed US military offices....its terrorism, but when the US assasinate Bin Laden without trial...its war.

Seems its only war when it suits your agenda. How convenient.

Hypocricy at its finest.

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Lestat

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Re: Chomsky on Bin Laden's murder
Reply #18 - May 11^th, 2011 at 9:33am

Grey wrote on May 10^th, 2011 at 6:17pm:

for a time there it did look like the entire Bush administration was nothing more than a puppet board of Halliburton's. Regan went way over the top ordering a missile strike on Philli. What Kissinger got up to in Laos and Cambodia was just plain Nazi and Albright's "we think the price was worth it" gets a special mention. Chuck Blair and Howard in the dock with them along with anybody left to round up for the shenanigins in South and Central America. If they could all go on trial in the Hague it wouldn't bother me one iota.

That said, there's a lot of facts Chomsky glosses right over. Bush never poisoned and massacred his own people like Saddam did. He didn't go to war against American women armed with acid and whips. He didn't blow up world heritage monuments and, sloppy as the execution of the war has been, military targets attacked by uniforms have been the order of the day.

Ossama might have elicited more sympathy by attacking the Pentagon and Fort Worth where the drone pilots operate from. When I attack, (with words) the USA, I'm not attacking ordinary men, women and children. I'm attacking the people and policies of the ruling class and culture. airliners, tube trains, office blocks and Bali nightclubs are NOT legiimate targets. Nobody who sanctions and bankrolls those actions is worth worrying about.

The World Towers housed US military offices as well as other legitimate military targets (using the western copy book on what is and isn't a legitimate target). Using your own western logic...does this not make the 3000 odd civilians killed on S11...um, 'collateral damage'.

Or my favorite...should the attacks be blamed on the US government for hiding its military 'amongst civilians'. Roll Eyes

Or can these words only be used when the west murders innocent civilians.

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Belgarion

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Re: Chomsky on Bin Laden's murder
Reply #19 - May 11^th, 2011 at 12:24pm

Lestat wrote on May 11^th, 2011 at 9:29am:

Belgarion wrote on May 10^th, 2011 at 5:31pm:

It is a war, Bin Laden was an enemy combatant. Chomsky may wail and moan all he likes but there was no legal requirement to do anything other than what was done.

So when Bin Laden strikes the S11 towers which housed US military offices....its terrorism, but when the US assasinate Bin Laden without trial...its war.

Seems its only war when it suits your agenda. How convenient.

Hypocricy at its finest.

So by using your own logic you Bin Laden groupies have nothing to bitch about have you? Grin

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

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Grey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5341 Gender:	Re: Chomsky on Bin Laden's murder Reply #20 - May 11^th, 2011 at 12:57pm Quote: Or can these words only be used when the west murders innocent civilians. East West North or South when 'Leaders' go feral and start murdering ordinary people, I think reasonable people should kick up a stink about it. When they murder each other I think we can all cheer.
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mozzaok

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Re: Chomsky on Bin Laden's murder
Reply #21 - May 11^th, 2011 at 1:00pm

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Are you sure about that? I can't imagine anyone who supports or potentially supports terrorism would be genuinely concerned about the justice issues here. They want Bin Laden alive, whether he was responsible or not. Furthermore, the spectacle of a trial would have given his organisation a lot of attention. None of his supporters would have seen his stance as anything but at war with the west, particularly the US. I expect it would be more demoralising for them that we got it over and done with quickly, with little fanfare, and move quickly onto the next target.

FD

While I disagree in principle with the way Bin Laden was killed, I also hold no sympathy for him on a personal level, and as soon as he committed his life to radical jihadism, his fate was in his own hands.
I agree with the opinion offered by FD, and that was the only justification that I could come up with to rationalise what was effectively a summary execution, other than the fact that almost any other course of action could have quickly spiralled out of control, with massive potential for personal harm to be visited upon innocent people by Bin Laden's fellow jihadists.
I mourn the lowering of our standards of justice and decency, but I also accept that we do not live in a black and white world where there is always an easy choice between right and wrong.

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Lestat

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Re: Chomsky on Bin Laden's murder
Reply #22 - May 12^th, 2011 at 9:43am

Belgarion wrote on May 11^th, 2011 at 12:24pm:

Lestat wrote on May 11^th, 2011 at 9:29am:

Belgarion wrote on May 10^th, 2011 at 5:31pm:

It is a war, Bin Laden was an enemy combatant. Chomsky may wail and moan all he likes but there was no legal requirement to do anything other than what was done.

So when Bin Laden strikes the S11 towers which housed US military offices....its terrorism, but when the US assasinate Bin Laden without trial...its war.

Seems its only war when it suits your agenda. How convenient.

Hypocricy at its finest.

So by using your own logic you Bin Laden groupies have nothing to bitch about have you? Grin

Actually...its your logic. Besides...who's bitching?

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Lestat

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Re: Chomsky on Bin Laden's murder
Reply #23 - May 12^th, 2011 at 9:46am

Grey wrote on May 11^th, 2011 at 12:57pm:

Quote:

Or can these words only be used when the west murders innocent civilians.

East West North or South when 'Leaders' go feral and start murdering ordinary people, I think reasonable people should kick up a stink about it. When they murder each other I think we can all cheer.

Ordinary people quite often do...unless of course when its Israeli's killing Palestinian children, or Americans bombing Afghan villages...when this occurs, those 'ordinary' people you speak of cheer on the sidelines whey they hear of another muslims killed.

Don't believe me...check out the 'Extremism' board.

Oh...and I look forward to you kicking up a stink the next time the west kills innocent muslims. Don't worry...unfortunately you won't have to wait long.

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Grey

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Re: Chomsky on Bin Laden's murder
Reply #24 - May 12^th, 2011 at 10:03am

Lestat wrote on May 12^th, 2011 at 9:46am:

Grey wrote on May 11^th, 2011 at 12:57pm:

Quote:

Or can these words only be used when the west murders innocent civilians.

East West North or South when 'Leaders' go feral and start murdering ordinary people, I think reasonable people should kick up a stink about it. When they murder each other I think we can all cheer.

Ordinary people quite often do...unless of course when its Israeli's killing Palestinian children, or Americans bombing Afghan villages...when this occurs, those 'ordinary' people you speak of cheer on the sidelines whey they hear of another muslims killed.

Don't believe me...check out the 'Extremism' board.

Oh...and I look forward to you kicking up a stink the next time the west kills innocent muslims. Don't worry...unfortunately you won't have to wait long.

Oh don't worry Lestat, I've done my time on I/P threads and maybe I'll open one in General. Wink

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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abu_rashid

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Re: Chomsky on Bin Laden's murder
Reply #25 - May 14^th, 2011 at 12:41am

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The World Towers housed US military offices as well as other legitimate military targets (using the western copy book on what is and isn't a legitimate target). Using your own western logic...does this not make the 3000 odd civilians killed on S11...um, 'collateral damage'

No Lestat, according to the Western rules of propaganda, it'd make them human shields, since they housed military assets alongside civilians. But we all know that kind of "reasoning" only applies to the enemy. This is no two way street here.

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