Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 ... 6
Send Topic Print
Nihilist Left brings progressives into disrepute (Read 8966 times)
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Nihilist Left brings progressives into disrepute
May 11th, 2011 at 9:03am
 
Nihilist Left brings progressives into disrepute

Nick Dyrenfurth From: The Australian May 10, 2011

LAST week the world learned of the death of a misogynistic, homophobic, racist mass murderer who supported a theocratic, neo-fascist ideology posing as a liberation movement. In Washington and at New York's September 11 Ground Zero, spontaneous crowds cheered in the streets upon the announcement of Osama bin Laden's long-overdue demise.

Most of the world's population, Muslim and non-Muslim, greeted the news in a more sober fashion. But the overwhelming majority must surely have agreed with the man who authorised bin Laden's death, US President Barack Obama: justice had been done.

To be sure, bin Laden was opposed to every tenet of modern progressive politics; secular democracy, representative government, a hatred of feudal or class-based inequity, equality of the sexes, anti-racism and the core values of the Enlightenment itself.

No self-respecting social democrat mourned his death. And yet, had one's daily reading habits been confined to sections of so-called "progressive" opinion, bin Laden's death was a matter of profound regret. The extra-judicial killing was a denial of due process, celebrity lawyer Geoffrey Robertson protested, oblivious to the impossibility of capturing or trying bin Laden. "[It's] hard to celebrate one more corpse," opined Jeff Sparrow, a devotee of the violent Bolshevik thug, Leon Trotsky, on ABC's The Drum. Not to be outdone, Crikey's Hunter S Thompson-wannabe, Guy Rundle, downplayed bin Laden's crimes claiming that: "Morally speaking, 9/11 was no worse than a B-52 run over Vietnam."

You don't have to believe that American engagement in Indochina during the 1960s and 70s was foolhardy or that the 2003 invasion of Iraq was likewise ill-judged, as the present writer does, to find Rundle's commentary nonsensical. Then again this is a man who has penned such thoughtful treatises as "Zionists and Nazis Connected. Discuss."

Perhaps the most disturbing local contribution came from another Drum regular, anti-Israel activist Antony Loewenstein, who announced that "the West has much to learn". Bin Laden's "[terrorist] tactics were abhorrent and failed to attract huge numbers of followers" Loewenstein surmised, nonetheless the West's subjugation of Muslims meant that the "arguments for his organisation's force have only strengthened since 9/11".

In other words, Osama was a nasty piece of work but fighting the good fight against imperialist crusaders. (Never mind that the majority of al-Qa'ida's victims have been Muslim.) Loewenstein concluded by offering a paean of praise: "Bin Laden died a man who profoundly changed the landscape of the world."

Well, yes, he certainly changed Lower Manhattan's landscape.

If any further evidence were required to show that a segment of the 21st century Western Left has completely lost the plot and plumbed the deepest, darkest depths of moral nihilism and cultural relativism, the contributions of these so-called "progressive" thinkers is conclusive proof. As British academic-cum-blogger Norman Geras put it this week: "In the demise of a reactionary murdering theocrat they are unable to see and plainly articulate the sense of anything good".

As has been well-documented, social democratic parties are in serious decline across the West.

In part, their woes are the perverse result, as the late Tony Judt put it, of their success in conquering mass poverty and material deprivation, and other epic 20th century struggles against inequality and discrimination.

Indeed, the survival of liberal democracy in the face of the twin totalitarian threats of fascism and communism owed much to the efforts of social democrats.

Today, however, noisy elements on the far Left - think Noam Chomsky, John Pilger and our local scribblers - seem to believe that Western-style democracy is in fact the real enemy.

With monotonous regularity they excuse bin Laden and his fellow Jihadis' death-cult or rationalise Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's vile anti-Semitism, instead preferring to blame the US and Israel for all the woes of the world, including partial responsibility for the September 11 atrocities.

There are of course brave souls on the Left who have challenged the ostensible status quo. One thinks here of Geras and his fellow Euston Manifesto signatories. Recently a local player emerged to put a similar case.

In his maiden speech to NSW parliament last year Labor MLC Luke Foley, from the party's Left, argued that social democrats must confront the newest "totalitarian movement of the far Right" just as they successfully opposed fascism. "This global Islamist movement is misogynist, racist and homophobic [and] based on an utter perversion of the Islamic faith.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Nihilist Left brings progressives into disrepute
Reply #1 - May 11th, 2011 at 9:04am
 
"Too many progressives are silent about this," Foley insisted, "or worse, deny this."

It is hard to disagree with the crux of Foley's argument. And yet if I must quibble with his analysis and that of Geras et al, it is their designation of the apologists for radical Islam, as "Left", an association that is arguably harming the electoral viability of centre-left parties across the globe. For they are no such thing.

It is high time these values-free misfits received a new appellation.

Practically speaking, they oppose mainstream Left thinking on virtually every subject. Amazingly they can see no tangible difference between a theocracy and a democracy nor denounce Islamic fundamentalism in unequivocal terms. To my mind, they should be known for what they are: nihilists.

So let them rail against liberal democracy and chant: "We are all Hezbollah" from the rooftops but do not besmirch the good name of others by deeming themselves Left.
No, let them stand with like-minded nihilists, Jew-haters and other enemies of social democracy, including a recently deceased jihadist unlikely to be enjoying a judenrein paradise of virgins. On behalf of the sane Left, good riddance to the lot of them.

Nick Dyrenfurth co-edited All That's Left: What Labor Should Stand For.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dsmithy70
Gold Member
*****
Offline


ire futuis vobismetipsis

Posts: 13147
Newy
Gender: male
Re: Nihilist Left brings progressives into disrepute
Reply #2 - May 11th, 2011 at 9:10am
 
Great Post
Thanks
Back to top
 

REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento
 
IP Logged
 
Andrei.Hicks
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23818
Carlsbad, CA
Gender: male
Re: Nihilist Left brings progressives into disrepute
Reply #3 - May 11th, 2011 at 9:13am
 
Soren wrote on May 11th, 2011 at 9:03am:
Today, however, noisy elements on the far Left - think Noam Chomsky, John Pilger and our local scribblers



I consider myself a fairly well-read educated guy able to make up on my own mind on issues and would say my views are Right in nature a lot of the time.

But I was just trying to thing if I have EVER agreed with these two on ANYTHING.

Nothing springs to mind.
Back to top
 

Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
IP Logged
 
cods
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88048
Re: Nihilist Left brings progressives into disrepute
Reply #4 - May 11th, 2011 at 9:16am
 
would any of the like him and his followers in their backyards I wonder??..to see someone sitting there watching and plotting and planning his next hate filled  revenge..was stomach turning..yet they feel he was a worthwhile citizen of the world..a good man..

well what annoys me most is that these sympathisers get so much milage out of this where Germaine she is usually out they telling us we are wrong... he was all good.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Prevailing
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 7169
Stop Men
Re: Nihilist Left brings progressives into disrepute
Reply #5 - May 11th, 2011 at 9:29am
 
Liberal democracy has lead us to dictatorship of the bourgeois, we are running countries by and for the upper-class, the bankers and corporations who are walking all over the law and the rights of individuals enshrined in law.  When every budget has become an exercise in outsourcing of responsibility from the ruling class onto the poor its time for change. Cool
Back to top
 

I condemn Male Violence Against Women
The Government Supports Gynocide
There Is Something Dreadfully Wrong With Men
 
IP Logged
 
mozzaok
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Nihilist Left brings progressives into disrepute
Reply #6 - May 11th, 2011 at 10:18am
 
To try and simplify the views of a man like Noam Chomsky, down to a level where the writer of the article puts him on a plane with Pilger, is enough to tell me that this guy is just one more who does not like admitting that he has no greater claim to declaring what is moral, and what is not, than those he accuses of nihilism.

To describe the killing of Bin Laden as "justice", is not a position  I would expect from those wishing to claim any moral high ground, over fundamentalist Islam.
His death was a revenge killing, and in that regard, puts those who ordered it on very shaky ground when wishing to denounce as barbaric the behaviour of fundamentalists who have honour killings as a part of their core beliefs.

While I do not mourn bin Laden's death, I do mourn for our sense of justice, because the fact that we so easily accept the meting out of such summary execution, as justice, is a diminution of our own values.

It is an easy thing to point out the many faults of people like Bin Laden, and to highlight the moral and ethical flaws in his beliefs, but unless we also show the same vigour in exposing the injustices and wrongs in our own system, then we should not be making rash claims of being alone, in holding some, superior, moral imperative, which allows us to make moral judgements upon others while, characterising any criticism of ourselves as morally nihilistic, for that is pure hubris.

We of the west must accept responsibility for our part in this escalating enmity between Islam and the west, and also accept our part in the rise of people like Bin Laden, and to try and characterise his position as growing from a purely religious, rather than political, ideology, are ignoring the facts of our recent past, and assigning labels like nihilist to people honest enough to speak up about our own faults, is not anything to be proud of.
Back to top
 

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
IP Logged
 
Andrei.Hicks
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23818
Carlsbad, CA
Gender: male
Re: Nihilist Left brings progressives into disrepute
Reply #7 - May 11th, 2011 at 10:20am
 
mozzaok wrote on May 11th, 2011 at 10:18am:
To try and simplify the views of a man like Noam Chomsky.



Noam Chomsky.

Now if ever there was a man who infuriates me with his horse manure views....

An anti-semite to boot.
Back to top
 

Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
IP Logged
 
mozzaok
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Nihilist Left brings progressives into disrepute
Reply #8 - May 11th, 2011 at 10:29am
 
I am not an advocate for Chomsky, but I recognise his abilities as a thinking person, and believe that putting him on a plane with someone who is a far more simplistic reactionary, like Pilger, is failing to pay due consideration to the depth, and complexity of Chomsky, by comparison.

A lot of what Chomsky says is actually pretty good, if you take the time to listen to him, but he is a bit too far out there for me to personally agree with his whole world view, but I still have to respect the man's intellect.
Back to top
 

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: Nihilist Left brings progressives into disrepute
Reply #9 - May 11th, 2011 at 10:32am
 
I think many people forget that people on the left are not sitting here crying over Bin Laden's death.  We are crying because a killing has been called "justice" when in reality justice is handed down by the courts. 

What surprises me the most is how narcissistic right wingers call themselves church goers...
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
Andrei.Hicks
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23818
Carlsbad, CA
Gender: male
Re: Nihilist Left brings progressives into disrepute
Reply #10 - May 11th, 2011 at 10:33am
 
mozzaok wrote on May 11th, 2011 at 10:29am:
I am not an advocate for Chomsky, but I recognise his abilities as a thinking person, and believe that putting him on a plane with someone who is a far more simplistic reactionary, like Pilger, is failing to pay due consideration to the depth, and complexity of Chomsky, by comparison.

A lot of what Chomsky says is actually pretty good, if you take the time to listen to him, but he is a bit too far out there for me to personally agree with his whole world view, but I still have to respect the man's intellect.



Hopefully you'd not support his rampant anti-semitism.

Some of his comments about Israel are outrageous.
Back to top
 

Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
IP Logged
 
Dsmithy70
Gold Member
*****
Offline


ire futuis vobismetipsis

Posts: 13147
Newy
Gender: male
Re: Nihilist Left brings progressives into disrepute
Reply #11 - May 11th, 2011 at 10:37am
 
The article simply points out there are wing-nuts on both ends of the political spectrum.
Back to top
 

REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento
 
IP Logged
 
cods
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88048
Re: Nihilist Left brings progressives into disrepute
Reply #12 - May 11th, 2011 at 10:39am
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 11th, 2011 at 10:33am:
mozzaok wrote on May 11th, 2011 at 10:29am:
I am not an advocate for Chomsky, but I recognise his abilities as a thinking person, and believe that putting him on a plane with someone who is a far more simplistic reactionary, like Pilger, is failing to pay due consideration to the depth, and complexity of Chomsky, by comparison.

A lot of what Chomsky says is actually pretty good, if you take the time to listen to him, but he is a bit too far out there for me to personally agree with his whole world view, but I still have to respect the man's intellect.



Hopefully you'd not support his rampant anti-semitism.

Some of his comments about Israel are outrageous.



I just love all the indepth telling it like it is...

sort of reminds me of the 60s and the hippie revolution when they talked the meaningful  talk ..and all were in awe of them..lol..nothing has changed..

like you andrei I prefer to use my own instincts.. I dont need some guru to tell me what HE thinks..

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
...
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 23673
WA
Gender: male
Re: Nihilist Left brings progressives into disrepute
Reply #13 - May 11th, 2011 at 10:51am
 
Maybe they take the wankery a bit too far, but they do make some good points.

The world isn't so cleanly compartmentalised into 'good vs evil'
Back to top
 

In the fullness of time...
 
IP Logged
 
mozzaok
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Nihilist Left brings progressives into disrepute
Reply #14 - May 11th, 2011 at 11:02am
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 11th, 2011 at 10:33am:
mozzaok wrote on May 11th, 2011 at 10:29am:
I am not an advocate for Chomsky, but I recognise his abilities as a thinking person, and believe that putting him on a plane with someone who is a far more simplistic reactionary, like Pilger, is failing to pay due consideration to the depth, and complexity of Chomsky, by comparison.

A lot of what Chomsky says is actually pretty good, if you take the time to listen to him, but he is a bit too far out there for me to personally agree with his whole world view, but I still have to respect the man's intellect.



Hopefully you'd not support his rampant anti-semitism.

Some of his comments about Israel are outrageous.


Unfortunately Andrei you are prey to the lies of an ever eager right who seek to malign any they believe are not with them, and Chomsky is certainly not anti-semitic.
His stance has always been anti-racist, and it is only his criticism of some of Israels actions that have seen the false anti-semitism accusation made.

Criticising an Israeli government is no more anti-semitic, than criticising the Gillard government is anti-Australian, and the people that make those false claims are the ones whose views you should view with caution.
Back to top
 

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 6
Send Topic Print