Australian Politics Forum - Greens are on the road to NOWHERE

Tony Bradshaw

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Re: Greens are on the road to NOWHERE
Reply #15 - May 16^th, 2011 at 12:28pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 12:07pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 11:59am:

whoever said that was an idiot. The greens are primarily recipients of PROTEST votes. but now that the Greens are getting an actual say in power their support i drying up. possibly the communist senator isnt helping nor the anti-semitic policies. neither plays very well in australia. and half of their vote is for Bob Brown personally. he is quitting next election so bye bye to a LOT of votes!

Again, it's widely seen that Greens were a party with conviction at the last election, unlike the Libs and Labor who just whined about each other - resulting in the election result we got.

As for the rest, you can sit and predict all you like, and make assumptions, but in the end, I am agreeing that many idiotic normally right-wing voters came over to the Greens last time, and this is now seen to be heading back over and normalising.

Greens will only see vote increases with more people moving their ideology over to the left, away from the centre.

If the Greens are a party of conviction, why is their vote going backwards??

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Greens are on the road to NOWHERE
Reply #16 - May 16^th, 2011 at 12:30pm

Tony Bradshaw wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 12:28pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 12:07pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 11:59am:

whoever said that was an idiot. The greens are primarily recipients of PROTEST votes. but now that the Greens are getting an actual say in power their support i drying up. possibly the communist senator isnt helping nor the anti-semitic policies. neither plays very well in australia. and half of their vote is for Bob Brown personally. he is quitting next election so bye bye to a LOT of votes!

Again, it's widely seen that Greens were a party with conviction at the last election, unlike the Libs and Labor who just whined about each other - resulting in the election result we got.

As for the rest, you can sit and predict all you like, and make assumptions, but in the end, I am agreeing that many idiotic normally right-wing voters came over to the Greens last time, and this is now seen to be heading back over and normalising.

Greens will only see vote increases with more people moving their ideology over to the left, away from the centre.

If the Greens are a party of conviction, why is their vote going backwards??

One reason could be right wing nutjobs who voted for them all of sudden don't like their policy on the environment ie: the Carbon Tax.

And sometimes having conviction means people don't like you, because, as Hicks alwyas put it, in the end many people are only out there for their own.

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Tony Bradshaw

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Re: Greens are on the road to NOWHERE
Reply #17 - May 16^th, 2011 at 12:37pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 12:30pm:

Tony Bradshaw wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 12:28pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 12:07pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 11:59am:

whoever said that was an idiot. The greens are primarily recipients of PROTEST votes. but now that the Greens are getting an actual say in power their support i drying up. possibly the communist senator isnt helping nor the anti-semitic policies. neither plays very well in australia. and half of their vote is for Bob Brown personally. he is quitting next election so bye bye to a LOT of votes!

Again, it's widely seen that Greens were a party with conviction at the last election, unlike the Libs and Labor who just whined about each other - resulting in the election result we got.

As for the rest, you can sit and predict all you like, and make assumptions, but in the end, I am agreeing that many idiotic normally right-wing voters came over to the Greens last time, and this is now seen to be heading back over and normalising.

Greens will only see vote increases with more people moving their ideology over to the left, away from the centre.

If the Greens are a party of conviction, why is their vote going backwards??

One reason could be right wing nutjobs who voted for them all of sudden don't like their policy on the environment ie: the Carbon Tax.

And sometimes having conviction means people don't like you, because, as Hicks alwyas put it, in the end many people are only out there for their own.

Conviction does not always mean success - look at Pauline Hanson, she has a lot of conviction but where is she now?

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Tony Bradshaw

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Re: Greens are on the road to NOWHERE
Reply #18 - May 16^th, 2011 at 12:39pm

Its the Greens "ideological purity" and refusal compromise that is holding them back. Their refusal to move even an inch closer to the Centre is what will eventually kill them off.

Their attempts to claim the high moral ground on asylum seekers is a prime example of this "purity". Most Australians do not want people turning up unannounced in boats demanding permanent residency in our country. Whether they are actual refugeesis not the issue. Most Australians perceive as a form of uncontrolled immigration and a breach of out national sovereignty. The Greens take a contrary view which the VAST majority of Australians do not support. Sarah Hanson-Young even has the nerve to say Australians lack compassion and sympathy - hence she is effectively lecturing the majority of the electorate on their own moral and ethical views. This is electoral poison and reeks of arrogance. How can this attitude possibly lift them in the polls? In short, it can't.

Until they at least attempt to embrace the broad Australian electorate they are doomed to failure. The fact is they seem completely unable to do this.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Greens are on the road to NOWHERE
Reply #19 - May 16^th, 2011 at 12:40pm

Tony Bradshaw wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 12:37pm:

Its the Greens "ideological purity" and refusal compromise that is holding them back. Their refusal to move even an inch closer to the Centre is what will eventually kill them off.

Their attempts to claim the high moral ground on asylum seekers is a prime example of this "purity". Most Australians do not want people turning up unannounced in boats demanding permanent residency in our country whether they be refugees or not. The Greens take a contrary view which the VAST majority of Australians do not support. Sarah Hanson-Young even has the nerve to say Australians lack compassion and sympathy - hence she is effectively lecturing the majority of the electorate on their own moral and ethical views. This is electoral poison and reeks of arrogance. How can this attitude possibly lift them in the polls? In short, it can't.

Until they at least attempt to embrace the broad Australian electorate they are doomed to failure. The fact is they seem completely unable to do this.

Actually you will find that the majority of people when it comes to election time, rank "Boat people" as a very minor issue for them.

As for the Greens, as mentioned, they negotiate and compromise all the time. It's a complete right wing fib to call them ideologists. Look at what the Coalition is doing re: the budget, and what the Greens are. Greens said they will attempt to negotiate change, and pass. Coalition simply said "Oh we don't like. We want election. No."

And the Greens need to stay in the Left, to allow people of that ideology a choice, and to have the left re-prosper once again.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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longweekend58

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Re: Greens are on the road to NOWHERE
Reply #20 - May 16^th, 2011 at 12:51pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 12:40pm:

Tony Bradshaw wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 12:37pm:

Its the Greens "ideological purity" and refusal compromise that is holding them back. Their refusal to move even an inch closer to the Centre is what will eventually kill them off.

Their attempts to claim the high moral ground on asylum seekers is a prime example of this "purity". Most Australians do not want people turning up unannounced in boats demanding permanent residency in our country whether they be refugees or not. The Greens take a contrary view which the VAST majority of Australians do not support. Sarah Hanson-Young even has the nerve to say Australians lack compassion and sympathy - hence she is effectively lecturing the majority of the electorate on their own moral and ethical views. This is electoral poison and reeks of arrogance. How can this attitude possibly lift them in the polls? In short, it can't.

Until they at least attempt to embrace the broad Australian electorate they are doomed to failure. The fact is they seem completely unable to do this.

Actually you will find that the majority of people when it comes to election time, rank "Boat people" as a very minor issue for them.

As for the Greens, as mentioned, they negotiate and compromise all the time. It's a complete right wing fib to call them ideologists. Look at what the Coalition is doing re: the budget, and what the Greens are. Greens said they will attempt to negotiate change, and pass. Coalition simply said "Oh we don't like. We want election. No."

And the Greens need to stay in the Left, to allow people of that ideology a choice, and to have the left re-prosper once again.

you forget the Tampa election very conveniently. it was that very issue that gave howard a win in the election.

how long have you been in this country?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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bridonta Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 522	Re: Greens are on the road to NOWHERE Reply #21 - May 16^th, 2011 at 1:02pm I hope the Green members should tell Hanson Young to shut up from now to remain of where they are .. and more concern on Green and well being of this country instead ..
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Tony Bradshaw

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Re: Greens are on the road to NOWHERE
Reply #22 - May 16^th, 2011 at 1:03pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 12:51pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 12:40pm:

Tony Bradshaw wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 12:37pm:

Its the Greens "ideological purity" and refusal compromise that is holding them back. Their refusal to move even an inch closer to the Centre is what will eventually kill them off.

Their attempts to claim the high moral ground on asylum seekers is a prime example of this "purity". Most Australians do not want people turning up unannounced in boats demanding permanent residency in our country whether they be refugees or not. The Greens take a contrary view which the VAST majority of Australians do not support. Sarah Hanson-Young even has the nerve to say Australians lack compassion and sympathy - hence she is effectively lecturing the majority of the electorate on their own moral and ethical views. This is electoral poison and reeks of arrogance. How can this attitude possibly lift them in the polls? In short, it can't.

Until they at least attempt to embrace the broad Australian electorate they are doomed to failure. The fact is they seem completely unable to do this.

Actually you will find that the majority of people when it comes to election time, rank "Boat people" as a very minor issue for them.

As for the Greens, as mentioned, they negotiate and compromise all the time. It's a complete right wing fib to call them ideologists. Look at what the Coalition is doing re: the budget, and what the Greens are. Greens said they will attempt to negotiate change, and pass. Coalition simply said "Oh we don't like. We want election. No."

And the Greens need to stay in the Left, to allow people of that ideology a choice, and to have the left re-prosper once again.

you forget the Tampa election very conveniently. it was that very issue that gave howard a win in the election.

how long have you been in this country?

Agreed. The boat people issue is toxic for the government. People can't stand people self-selecting Australia, paying thousands of dollars to a people smuggler, dumping their passports and then demanding they be given residency. It not fair, its not just and its not right. What the point of even having an immigration system if these people can simply bypass the proper procedures. The reason they are in detention for so long is beacause we have NO IDEA who they are!! They could come by plane if the wanted to but no they choose to come by boat with no ID hoping they will be given preference. The Greens support of this unfair policy is doing them no favours at all.

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Tony Bradshaw Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 348 Sydney Gender:	Re: Greens are on the road to NOWHERE Reply #23 - May 16^th, 2011 at 1:04pm .
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Tony Bradshaw Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 348 Sydney Gender:	Re: Greens are on the road to NOWHERE Reply #24 - May 16^th, 2011 at 1:06pm The bottom line is, why should anyone (refugee or not) be entitled to residency when they turn up DELIBERATELY with no passport or identification and then complain they are not "released into the community" as soon as possible.
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longweekend58

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Re: Greens are on the road to NOWHERE
Reply #25 - May 16^th, 2011 at 1:14pm

Tony Bradshaw wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 1:06pm:

The bottom line is, why should anyone (refugee or not) be entitled to residency when they turn up DELIBERATELY with no passport or identification and then complain they are not "released into the community" as soon as possible.

Howards Boat people solution worked perfectly. it was only Rudd taht screwed it up and Gillard is actually making it worse!

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Greens are on the road to NOWHERE
Reply #26 - May 16^th, 2011 at 1:16pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 12:51pm:

you forget the Tampa election very conveniently. it was that very issue that gave howard a win in the election.

how long have you been in this country?

Long enough to see all of Howard's tactics. Don't you worry.

But in reality, since then the issue has not weighed up as importantly in election results; regardless of what the Coalition may say.

Grin

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Greens are on the road to NOWHERE
Reply #27 - May 16^th, 2011 at 1:20pm

Tony Bradshaw wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 1:03pm:

Agreed. The boat people issue is toxic for the government. People can't stand people self-selecting Australia, paying thousands of dollars to a people smuggler, dumping their passports and then demanding they be given residency. It not fair, its not just and its not right. What the point of even having an immigration system if these people can simply bypass the proper procedures. The reason they are in detention for so long is beacause we have NO IDEA who they are!! They could come by plane if the wanted to but no they choose to come by boat with no ID hoping they will be given preference. The Greens support of this unfair policy is doing them no favours at all.

Actually more people come by other means than a boat, but that's beside the point. Howard made it into a tactical policy to show his "strength." In the end, it might've worked once, but ultimately people are always more concerned about the economy and society in general.

With regard to asylum seekers, I would've hoped hearing about the hundreds of thousands in detention centres in Malaysia and Thailand would've shown you just how irrelevant our "problem" is.

And if people care about the issue, it's more because of the fact that people smugglers run a trade that endangers people's lives - which is the bigger issue. Your suggestions that these people are ill-fit for Australia and are just a burden to us is a view that is only held by the ultra Right and previous One Nation supporters.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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longweekend58

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Re: Greens are on the road to NOWHERE
Reply #28 - May 16^th, 2011 at 1:23pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 1:16pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 12:51pm:

you forget the Tampa election very conveniently. it was that very issue that gave howard a win in the election.

how long have you been in this country?

Long enough to see all of Howard's tactics. Don't you worry.

But in reality, since then the issue has not weighed up as importantly in election results; regardless of what the Coalition may say.

Grin

Labor kept saying that all the way to defeat in an election they could have won!

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Greens are on the road to NOWHERE
Reply #29 - May 16^th, 2011 at 1:25pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 1:20pm:

Tony Bradshaw wrote on May 16^th, 2011 at 1:03pm:

Agreed. The boat people issue is toxic for the government. People can't stand people self-selecting Australia, paying thousands of dollars to a people smuggler, dumping their passports and then demanding they be given residency. It not fair, its not just and its not right. What the point of even having an immigration system if these people can simply bypass the proper procedures. The reason they are in detention for so long is beacause we have NO IDEA who they are!! They could come by plane if the wanted to but no they choose to come by boat with no ID hoping they will be given preference. The Greens support of this unfair policy is doing them no favours at all.

Actually more people come by other means than a boat, but that's beside the point. Howard made it into a tactical policy to show his "strength." In the end, it might've worked once, but ultimately people are always more concerned about the economy and society in general.

With regard to asylum seekers, I would've hoped hearing about the hundreds of thousands in detention centres in Malaysia and Thailand would've shown you just how irrelevant our "problem" is.

And if people care about the issue, it's more because of the fact that people smugglers run a trade that endangers people's lives - which is the bigger issue. Your suggestions that these people are ill-fit for Australia and are just a burden to us is a view that is only held by the ultra Right and previous One Nation supporters.

200 have died under labors ill-thoughtout policy. Howards policy ended those needless deaths.

The more you post, the more you show the superiority of Howards policies.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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