Australian Politics Forum - ADL, anti-muslim nutters

Karnal

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Re: ADL, anti-muslim nutters
Reply #15 - May 17^th, 2011 at 3:08pm

Belgarion wrote on May 17^th, 2011 at 2:44pm:

Karnal wrote on May 17^th, 2011 at 12:36pm:

Belgarion wrote on May 17^th, 2011 at 11:56am:

Hardly extremists, just a group of citizens concerned about the direction this countrys immigration policies are taking us. The extremists are the islamics who have been allowed into our midst by the flawed concept of multicuturalism.

Unless this policy is changed then one day we will see real extremist opposition appear. When it does the multiculturalists will have no one to blame but themselves.

Multiculturalists? You mean every party in federal parliament?

One Nation excepted, but then again, they don't have a seat.

And changed to what? The White Australia policy? Good luck with that one. Perhaps time travel to 1901 would suit. Yellow peril, Kanak canecutters, Queen Victoria on the throne.

Ah, the good old days.

You may make all the ill informed comments you wish, however it will still not change the facts. Roll Eyes

Ill informed? But, my dear good fellow, the White Australia Policy was changed by the appeasing, softcock Holt government.

We could always vote Arthur Caldwell back in. Oh no, we can't...

Pity.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: ADL, anti-muslim nutters
Reply #16 - May 17^th, 2011 at 3:14pm

mozzaok wrote on May 17^th, 2011 at 10:56am:

We have a new brand of idiocy to worry about in Australia, the anti muslim fanatics.

They tried to silence them by calling them racists- muslims are not a race of people

They tried to silence them by calling them Islamophobes- Islam is an ideology its a fallacy that one can be phobic of an ideology.

They tried to silence them by calling them bigots- define bigot and see if it applies to muslims pushing Islamofascism.

They tried to silence them by calling them xenophobes- What is the exact opposite of a xenophobe?

Is a anti muslim fanatic someone who speaks up when muslims want sharia law to replace our secular democracy?

So what should we call those morally bankrupt Islamic apologists who support muslims in their quest to impose sharia law on Australians?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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mozzaok

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Re: ADL, anti-muslim nutters
Reply #17 - May 17^th, 2011 at 3:21pm

I am not a supporter of Islam, or of any other religious group, and I do find aspects of Islamic belief quite offensive, in fact dangerously offensive, but the difference is that I do not immediately assume that all muslims follow all the extreme teachings in the Koran, just as I do not assume all christians follow all the very bad stuff in the bible, and we need to be able to make that clear distinction between normal people, and extremist nutters.

The ADL claims to be against "Radical Islam", which is a fair enough comment, until you hear them speak, and you realise that to them, all Islam is radical, so they are really just promoting anti-muslim sentiments.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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Cliff Richard Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 558	Re: ADL, anti-muslim nutters Reply #18 - May 17^th, 2011 at 3:30pm adl are shakedown artists
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Cliff Richard Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 558	Re: ADL, anti-muslim nutters Reply #19 - May 17^th, 2011 at 3:32pm wait are we talking about the anti defamation legaue here?
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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: ADL, anti-muslim nutters Reply #20 - May 17^th, 2011 at 3:59pm Cliff Richard wrote on May 17^th, 2011 at 3:32pm: wait are we talking about the anti defamation legaue here? No, that ADL are anti-everyone-who's-not-a-jew, not just anti-muslim.
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Baronvonrort

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Re: ADL, anti-muslim nutters
Reply #21 - May 17^th, 2011 at 4:57pm

mozzaok wrote on May 17^th, 2011 at 3:21pm:

I am not a supporter of Islam, or of any other religious group, and I do find aspects of Islamic belief quite offensive, in fact dangerously offensive, but the difference is that I do not immediately assume that all muslims follow all the extreme teachings in the Koran, just as I do not assume all christians follow all the very bad stuff in the bible, and we need to be able to make that clear distinction between normal people, and extremist nutters.

The ADL claims to be against "Radical Islam", which is a fair enough comment, until you hear them speak, and you realise that to them, all Islam is radical, so they are really just promoting anti-muslim sentiments.

If you insist on comparing Islam to christians then what about the 10 commandments.
Thou shall not kill - Mohammad killed people and ordered the genocide of the Banu Qurayza
Thou shall not steal - Mohammad had no problem with stealing from non muslims he demanded 20% of all war booty
Thou shall not lie - Allah allows muslims to lie its called TAQIYYA
Thou shall not rape - Mohammad gave his followers permission to rape female captives,there is even a verse where he says coitus interruptus should not be done with female captives it is gods will if she falls pregnant- he even had his own coptic christian sex slave called Maria who gave him his only son called Ibrahim.
I could go on yet no point comparing Jesus to Mohammad the pedophile with his child bride Aisha.

A good muslim will be a terrorist because the Quran tells them numerous times to follow the example set by Mo.
The Quran has a word for those who you might call moderate the Quran calls them hypocrites.
The fundamentalists as we called them before the world became infected with that PC virus were just doing the fundamentals of Islam which is barbaric stuff.
Islam does not come in light -medium- radical there is only 1 islam and its Smacking radical.
The fundamentalists call the less devout muslims hypocrites.
You should read what this sheik says about 'Jihad against the hypocrites" the people you think are normal are called hypocrites in the Quran.
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/42534/jihad

Quran 2:85 says its off to the hellfire if you only believe part of the scripture and not all of it.
http://quran.com/2/85

Where do i fit in with this so called anti muslim sentiment when i support the ahmadi muslims who are persecuted by mainstream Islam?

The persecution of the Ahmadi muslims by mainstream Islam is evidence of what happens to muslims who try to reform Islam.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Belgarion

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Re: ADL, anti-muslim nutters
Reply #22 - May 17^th, 2011 at 4:59pm

Karnal wrote on May 17^th, 2011 at 3:08pm:

Belgarion wrote on May 17^th, 2011 at 2:44pm:

Karnal wrote on May 17^th, 2011 at 12:36pm:

Belgarion wrote on May 17^th, 2011 at 11:56am:

Hardly extremists, just a group of citizens concerned about the direction this countrys immigration policies are taking us. The extremists are the islamics who have been allowed into our midst by the flawed concept of multicuturalism.

Unless this policy is changed then one day we will see real extremist opposition appear. When it does the multiculturalists will have no one to blame but themselves.

Multiculturalists? You mean every party in federal parliament?

One Nation excepted, but then again, they don't have a seat.

And changed to what? The White Australia policy? Good luck with that one. Perhaps time travel to 1901 would suit. Yellow peril, Kanak canecutters, Queen Victoria on the throne.

Ah, the good old days.

You may make all the ill informed comments you wish, however it will still not change the facts. Roll Eyes

Ill informed? But, my dear good fellow, the White Australia Policy was changed by the appeasing, softcock Holt government.

We could always vote Arthur Caldwell back in. Oh no, we can't...

Pity.

The Immigration Restriction Act* is not the subject of this discussion, therefore your comments are not only stupid but irrelevant. if you have something worthwhile to say the please do so. However I suspect that your comments are merely designed to stifle discussion as is the wont of the multicultural apologists when they can offer no reasonable argument.

* If you are going to talk about something at least get the title correct.

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

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Yadda

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Re: ADL, anti-muslim nutters
Reply #23 - May 18^th, 2011 at 9:19am

mozzaok wrote on May 17^th, 2011 at 3:21pm:

I am not a supporter of Islam, or of any other religious group, and I do find aspects of Islamic belief quite offensive, in fact dangerously offensive, but the difference is that I do not immediately assume that all muslims follow all the extreme teachings in the Koran, just as I do not assume all christians follow all the very bad stuff in the bible, and we need to be able to make that clear distinction between normal people, and extremist nutters.

The ADL claims to be against "Radical Islam", which is a fair enough comment, until you hear them speak, and you realise that to them, all Islam is radical, so they are really just promoting anti-muslim sentiments.

+++

mozzaok,

PLEASE BELIEVE ME.

There is no, "Radical ISLAM".
There is no, "Radical ISLAM".
There is no, "Radical ISLAM".
There is no, "Radical ISLAM".
There is no, "Radical ISLAM".
There is no, "Radical ISLAM".
There is no, "Radical ISLAM".

ISLAM, is ISLAM.
Period.

There is no 'moderate' ISLAM.
And THAT, is also the reason why there are no 'moderate' moslems.

This following Koran text explains the essence of what ISLAM is, and the essence of what ISLAM promotes in the world;

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods;....they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:..."
Koran 9.111

+++

mozzaok said,
Quote:

I am not a supporter of Islam,....but.....I do not immediately assume that all muslims follow all the extreme teachings in the Koran,...

mozzaok,

You, and people like you, ARE by default, supporters of ISLAM.

Why so ???

Because you refuse to associate ISLAM [and you refuse to associate the evil which ISLAM clearly promotes, as a philosophy] with moslems.

It is your silence, and your lack of criticism of all moslems [your lack of criticism of what all moslems choose to embrace], which perpetuates the actions, the violence of moslems.

mozzaok,

How can you deny, that you are an appeaser, an apologist, for ISLAM ???

mozzaok,

I said that you refuse to associate what ISLAM is [what ISLAM promotes], with moslems.

CONSIDER, a 'moderate' moslem declares to you;

"I am a moslem. But i am a tolerant moslem. I am not an moslem who has extreme views."

While at the same time, ISLAM itself declares, e.g.;

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."

hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

AND,

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah,...fight ye against the ['unbelievers']..."
Koran 4.76

+++

mozzaok,

If a 'moderate' moslem declares to you;

"I am a moslem. Allah is my God, and Mohammed is his prophet."

...in what way is that person [who declares, "I am a moslem."] NOT a supporter of "Radical ISLAM" ???, when the ISLAM that is revealed within the Koran, and the Hadith [i.e. ISLAM's 'religious' texts] calls for the enslavement or murder of all non-moslems ???

+++

mozzaok, i ask you;

In what way can any moslem be defined as a 'moderate' moslem, when every 'moderate' moslem essentially declares to you [and to us all];

"I am a moslem. But i am a tolerant moslem. I am not an moslem who has extreme views.
BUT, I ALSO CHOOSE TO IDENTIFY MYSELF WITH, AND ASSOCIATE MYSELF WITH, A PHILOSOPHY [ISLAM], WHICH DECLARES, THAT PEOPLE WHO OFFEND ISLAM [e.g. by converting to another religion.], CAN BE 'LAWFULLY' MURDERED."

mozzaok, i ask you;

By the act of a 'moderate' moslem so clearly associating himself with ISLAM ["I am a moslem."], in what way is such a supposed 'moderate' moslem NOT a supporter of the extreme teachings of ISLAM ???

And mozzaok, i ask you;

When ISLAM, as 'a philosophy of life', declares [within its 'religious' texts], that it is OK ['lawful'], for moslems to intimidate, threaten and kill, people who 'offend' their religion,
...then what is it which defines a moslem, as a 'moderate' moslem, when moslems themselves, choose to associate themselves with what ISLAM is, by identifying, and self declaring;
"I am a moslem." ???

Who is a moslem ???

A moslem is a person who declares;

"I am a moslem. Allah is my God, and Mohammed is his prophet."

Who is a moslem ???

A moslem, is a person who chooses to embrace a philosophy [ISLAM] which tells moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to kill those who do not believe, as they believe.

THE TRUTH IS THAT...

All persons who self declare as being moslems, are ISLAMISTS [even if they will deny it].

The truth is, that there can never be, a 'moderate' moslem.

The supposed existence of even one 'moderate' moslem is a myth.

Why so ???

BECAUSE, ISLAM itself defines what it is, to be a moslem, and there cannot be a 'moderate' moslem, because there is no moderate ISLAM.

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« Last Edit: May 18^th, 2011 at 9:36am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: ADL, anti-muslim nutters
Reply #24 - May 18^th, 2011 at 9:21am

mozzaok wrote on May 17^th, 2011 at 3:21pm:

I am not a supporter of Islam, or of any other religious group, and I do find aspects of Islamic belief quite offensive, in fact dangerously offensive, but the difference is that I do not immediately assume that all muslims follow all the extreme teachings in the Koran, just as I do not assume all christians follow all the very bad stuff in the bible, and we need to be able to make that clear distinction between normal people, and extremist nutters.

The ADL claims to be against "Radical Islam", which is a fair enough comment, until you hear them speak, and you realise that to them, all Islam is radical, so they are really just promoting anti-muslim sentiments.

THE WORDS OF A MAN WHO UNDERSTANDS WHAT ISLAM IS....

"....Battle, animosity, and hatred -- directed from the Muslim to the infidel -- is the foundation of our religion.."

OBL

"....And we consider this [...warfare against infidels] a justice and kindness to them...."

OBL

i.e.
ISLAM's message to all infidels;

"If only the infidel would surrender to us, WE WOULD GIVE THEM 'PEACE'. Honest!"

/sarc off

Historically, those [non-moslems] who surrender to ISLAMISTS often end up butchered.

Of course, traditionally the women and children [of non-moslems] are always spared.
.....especially their wives and daughters.
/sarc off

"In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful."

Koran 1.1

ISLAM's way of achieving 'peace' explained - according to Osama Bin Laden...
OR,
Advice to real moslems, on how to be 'rightly guided' in your worldly relationships with infidels.

err,

"Fight and kill the infidels, until they submit."

Quote:

"As to the relationship between Muslims and infidels, this is summarized by the Most High's Word: ‘We renounce you. Enmity and hate shall forever reign between us -- till you believe in Allah alone’ [Koran 60:4]. So there is an enmity, evidenced by fierce hostility from the heart. And this fierce hostility -- that is, battle -- ceases only if the infidel submits to the authority of Islam, or if his blood is forbidden from being shed [i.e., a dhimmi], or if Muslims are at that point in time weak and incapable [i.e., taqiyya]. But if the hate at any time extinguishes from the heart, this is great apostasy! Such, then, is the basis and foundation of the relationship between the infidel and the Muslim. Battle, animosity, and hatred -- directed from the Muslim to the infidel -- is the foundation of our religion. And we consider this a justice and kindness to them" (from The Al Qaeda Reader).
.....It bears repeating that this hostile world view is well supported by all of Islam’s schools of jurisprudence."

cited here, from.....

November 10, 2008
Raymond Ibrahim: "Islam's Doctrines of Deception"
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/11/raymond-ibrahim-islams-doctrines-of-deception....

n.b. the words....

".....But if the hate at any time extinguishes from the heart, this is great apostasy!"

Translation....

If the hatred for non-moslems, at any time extinguishes from the heart of a moslem, "this is great apostasy!"

i.e.
You can only be a REAL moslem, if you have a burning HATRED for non-moslems.

COMMENT....
This sounds very Koran & Hadith based ['legitimate' moslem doctrine] to me.

And yet.....
Me wonders.....
Why do certain people on forums such as this one, who claim to have little knowledge about ISLAM, claim that moslems can remain moslems, even when they seemingly [supposedly!] relinquish their obligations to ISLAM and their obligations to ISLAMIC doctrines of hatred towards 'unbelievers' ???

Surely it is ISLAM itself, which defines who a moslem is, and what the obligations of a person who claims to be a moslem are ???

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends (or protectors),- offering them (your) love,..."
Koran 60.1

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76

Koran 8:20-22
Koran 5:59-60
Koran 47:33-35

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other......"
Koran 48.029

+++

A Study in Muslim Doctrine
"...while sincere friendship with non-Muslims is forbidden, insincere friendship - whenever beneficial to Muslims - is not."

http://www.meforum.org/2512/nidal-hasan-fort-hood-muslim-doctrine

Google,
smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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GH Junior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 98 Gender:	Re: ADL, anti-muslim nutters Reply #25 - Jun 2^nd, 2011 at 2:43pm Sprintcyclist wrote on May 17^th, 2011 at 11:09am: got a link so I can join them ? http://australiandefenceleague.freeforums.org/
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Check017

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Re: ADL, anti-muslim nutters
Reply #26 - Jun 3^rd, 2011 at 2:24pm

mozzaok wrote on May 17^th, 2011 at 10:56am:

these ADL(australian defence league) nuts, have made the choice to be extremists, which makes them as offensive to me as all the other mixed nuts out there.

I think you're overlooking cause and effect. They have witnessed some of the issues arising in other countries and are sensibly trying to prevent similar problems arising.

Quote:

They could even, said a "community leader", be the work of that bogeyman de nos jours, the English Defence League. So important was it not to draw the obvious inference (that untackled radical Islam makes the East End an increasingly hostile environment for gay people) that when a small counter-demonstration was proposed, its organisers were smeared as a front for – you guessed it – the EDL. Don't look at the posters; move along, please.

In Tuesday's paper, we read of the trial of five Muslim men, who admitted "grievous bodily harm with intent": that is, they attacked and maimed Gary Smith, a religious education teacher from an East End school. They were recorded on the way, saying: "This is the dog we want to hit, to strike, to kill." Mr Smith, in their opinion, had been insufficiently pro-Islam. But what's the scarred face of one schoolteacher when set against the need to keep the peace?

There's more, a lot more. A young Asian chemist has received death threats for refusing to wear a veil. You know, the veil that some people tell us is a sign of female empowerment. A Muslim councillor was given similar treatment, for dressing in too Western a fashion.

So I'll tell you what I never want to hear again. I never want to listen to a politician, living somewhere far, far removed from Bethnal Green, uttering a sentence like: "On the one hand, the Islamic extremists… On the other, the equally offensive English Defence League", as though the two have independent but morally equivalent aetiologies. I don't expect philosophical grandeur from any government. But I do expect its representatives to understand the difference between cause and effect.

The East End villains who thrive behind a veil of multiculturalism Daily Telegraph 27 May 2011.

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Yadda

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Re: ADL, anti-muslim nutters
Reply #27 - Jun 3^rd, 2011 at 2:43pm

Check017 wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2011 at 2:24pm:

mozzaok wrote on May 17^th, 2011 at 10:56am:

these ADL(australian defence league) nuts, have made the choice to be extremists, which makes them as offensive to me as all the other mixed nuts out there.

I think you're overlooking cause and effect. They have witnessed some of the issues arising in other countries and are sensibly trying to prevent similar problems arising.

Exactly so, ...Check017.

IMO, we [Australians] should be actively seeking to separate ourselves from those who, themselves, choose to embrace that vile death cult - ISLAM.

Who is a moslem ???

A moslem is a person who declares;

"I am a moslem. Allah is my God, and Mohammed is his prophet."

Who is a moslem ???

A moslem, is a person who chooses to embrace a philosophy [ISLAM] which tells moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to kill those who do not believe, as they believe.

+++

The Hadith,
"...the Prophet said, If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
hadith/bukhari #001.002.025

"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21842 A cat with a view	Re: ADL, anti-muslim nutters Reply #28 - Jun 3^rd, 2011 at 3:02pm p.s. Check017, Welcome to OzPol.
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chicken_lipsforme

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Re: ADL, anti-muslim nutters
Reply #29 - Jul 13^th, 2011 at 7:43am

mozzaok wrote on May 17^th, 2011 at 10:56am:

We have a new brand of idiocy to worry about in Australia, the anti muslim fanatics.
If you think people like soren and sprintcyclist, and yadda, are nutty over this issue, you should hear these guys, they are total wackos.

Bloody extremists, I don't care if you are muslim, christian, or scientologist, you, as an individual, make the choice to live a decent and moderate life, and these ADL(australian defence league) nuts, have made the choice to be extremists, which makes them as offensive to me as all the other mixed nuts out there.

What have they done to give you the impression they are extreme?

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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.

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