Australian Politics Forum - The Greens will not pass the Carbon Tax!

sir prince duke alevine Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23619 Gender:	Re: The Greens will not pass the Carbon Tax! Reply #45 - May 18^th, 2011 at 8:01pm Maqqa wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 7:49pm: I just explained it ETS vs CPRS the common letter is S this is why it's so complicated to understand for lefties And I rest the case that you are an epic idiot. Thanks for sharing.
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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: The Greens will not pass the Carbon Tax! Reply #46 - May 18^th, 2011 at 8:06pm SO FEAKIN SIMPLE but alevine would not understand how will you then understand an economic explanation for an ETS and a CPRS?
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Flying Binghi

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Re: The Greens will not pass the Carbon Tax!
Reply #47 - May 18^th, 2011 at 8:13pm

Quote:

via alevine;

Implementation does not to be hard start straight away.

You can do phased adoption implementation, where you start off with small, and gradually build it up. Takes longer, but in this case, when there is a valid argument that not all our trade partners have a Carbon Tax, it would result in a lot less pain.

Greens need to realise this, and when they do, and pass the Carbon Tax, then we can actually move forward, and I can bet in 20 years time we'd be laughing at the comments coming from the conservatives, just like we always laugh at comments coming from conservatives about the doom and gloom.

"...there is a valid argument that not all our trade partners have a Carbon Tax, it would result in a lot less pain..."

alevine, at least you admit the extra costs of the Tax/ETS will be detrimental to the economy - there's many out there like Bob Brown living in a fantasy world talking of all the extra jobs there will be making highly priced 'green' products for export.. Roll Eyes

"...pass the Carbon Tax, then we can actually move forward..." Move forward to what ? ...move forward to the Emissions Trading Scam so the banks and traders can get their cut while wreaking the country.. Huh

"...comments coming from conservatives about the doom and gloom..." Comments like the fact we are living through a mining boom bubble and the country is in debt.. Huh

Where has all the money gone ? ...Blown on useless windmills and solar panels. We have several hundred years of coal researves, we shouldn't be wasting money on useless feel-good trinkets...

.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: The Greens will not pass the Carbon Tax!
Reply #48 - May 18^th, 2011 at 8:17pm

Maqqa wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 8:06pm:

SO FEAKIN SIMPLE but alevine would not understand

how will you then understand an economic explanation for an ETS and a CPRS?

I'm not the one saying it's simple. You are. Surely if it's that simple you can explain it to all here, in layman terms, but without losing the detail?

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: The Greens will not pass the Carbon Tax!
Reply #49 - May 18^th, 2011 at 8:20pm

Flying Binghi wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 8:13pm:

Quote:

via alevine;

Implementation does not to be hard start straight away.

You can do phased adoption implementation, where you start off with small, and gradually build it up. Takes longer, but in this case, when there is a valid argument that not all our trade partners have a Carbon Tax, it would result in a lot less pain.

Greens need to realise this, and when they do, and pass the Carbon Tax, then we can actually move forward, and I can bet in 20 years time we'd be laughing at the comments coming from the conservatives, just like we always laugh at comments coming from conservatives about the doom and gloom.

"...there is a valid argument that not all our trade partners have a Carbon Tax, it would result in a lot less pain..."

alevine, at least you admit the extra costs of the Tax/ETS will be detrimental to the economy - there's many out there like Bob Brown living in a fantasy world talking of all the extra jobs there will be making highly priced 'green' products for export.. Roll Eyes

"...pass the Carbon Tax, then we can actually move forward..." Move forward to what ? ...move forward to the Emissions Trading Scam so the banks and traders can get their cut while wreaking the country.. Huh

"...comments coming from conservatives about the doom and gloom..." Comments like the fact we are living through a mining boom bubble and the country is in debt.. Huh

Where has all the money gone ? ...Blown on useless windmills and solar panels. We have several hundred years of coal researves, we shouldn't be wasting money on useless feel-good trinkets...

.

All reform comes with some level of pain that is felt by someone in the community. It is a fact. I'm simply saying to minimise it you don't go out with a complete hard-hitting implementation. But that does not mean that it is going to be detrimental to the economy. That's just another wives tale constantly brought up by conservates such as yourself who do nothing but attempt to scare, without having much knowledge about the issue.

ANd yes, move forward to a market mechanism that ALL leading economists have stated is the best way to transform the economy into low-carbon.

As for the rest ,well, you've proven my point about the doom and gloom, and I'm sure as hell will be saving this to laugh at in 5 years time.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: The Greens will not pass the Carbon Tax!
Reply #50 - May 18^th, 2011 at 8:32pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 8:17pm:

Maqqa wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 8:06pm:

SO FEAKIN SIMPLE but alevine would not understand

how will you then understand an economic explanation for an ETS and a CPRS?

I'm not the one saying it's simple. You are. Surely if it's that simple you can explain it to all here, in layman terms, but without losing the detail?

Let's make it easy for you Maqqa: Define CPRS. Without looking it up.

Grin

Talk about a partisan stooge.

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Flying Binghi

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Re: The Greens will not pass the Carbon Tax!
Reply #51 - May 18^th, 2011 at 8:40pm

.

Quote:

via alevine;

All reform comes with some level of pain that is felt by someone in the community. It is a fact. I'm simply saying to minimise it you don't go out with a complete hard-hitting implementation. But that does not mean that it is going to be detrimental to the economy. That's just another wives tale constantly brought up by conservates such as yourself who do nothing but attempt to scare, without having much knowledge about the issue.

ANd yes, move forward to a market mechanism that ALL leading economists have stated is the best way to transform the economy into low-carbon.

As for the rest ,well, you've proven my point about the doom and gloom, and I'm sure as hell will be saving this to laugh at in 5 years time.

"All reform comes with some level of pain that is felt by someone in the community. It is a fact. I'm simply saying to minimise it you don't go out with a complete hard-hitting implementation..."

Hmmm... alevine, just what is this "pain" that you invisage ?.. Huh

.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: The Greens will not pass the Carbon Tax!
Reply #52 - May 18^th, 2011 at 8:51pm

Flying Binghi wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 8:40pm:

.

Quote:

via alevine;

All reform comes with some level of pain that is felt by someone in the community. It is a fact. I'm simply saying to minimise it you don't go out with a complete hard-hitting implementation. But that does not mean that it is going to be detrimental to the economy. That's just another wives tale constantly brought up by conservates such as yourself who do nothing but attempt to scare, without having much knowledge about the issue.

ANd yes, move forward to a market mechanism that ALL leading economists have stated is the best way to transform the economy into low-carbon.

As for the rest ,well, you've proven my point about the doom and gloom, and I'm sure as hell will be saving this to laugh at in 5 years time.

"All reform comes with some level of pain that is felt by someone in the community. It is a fact. I'm simply saying to minimise it you don't go out with a complete hard-hitting implementation..."

Hmmm... alevine, just what is this "pain" that you invisage ?.. Huh

.

Broken legs?

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freediver

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Re: The Greens will not pass the Carbon Tax!
Reply #53 - May 18^th, 2011 at 10:05pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 7:35pm:

freediver wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 7:13pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 18^th, 2011 at 8:53am:

freediver wrote on May 17^th, 2011 at 7:07pm:

I think there is a limit to how far the greens can push this before it starts to push voters the opposite way.

The amount of the tax is a non-issue. Surely it is better to have a low tax than no tax at all. They can raise the rate later.

Industry compensation is also a bit of a furphy. A lot of this is protection for trade exposed industries. The alternative to this risks sending jobs and pollution overseas, where the environmental standards could be a lot lower.

It is getting absurd with everyone playing politics on this one. People accuse Rudd of destroying his CPRS by pushing the coalition into a corner where they had to oppose it. This will be the second time the Greens oppose climate change legislation. The first time they could get away with because the CPRS was a bit of a monster in terms of complexity. Opposing the tax will be a lot harder to pull off.

Then again, the Greens may not have much choice either. Once we have effective greenhouse legislation the drift of voters to the Greens will stop. Preventing the legislation while trying to blame it on Labor may be their only way to grow. The risk of course is that the coalition and Labor may come up with a bipartisan agreement and move forward without the Greens.

If the greens do block this tax, I will be putting Labor ahead of them next election.

The same argument applied to the ETS. better a tax that was low by their standards than to block it completely. it was absolutist politics and was little more than the Greens throwing a tanty.

The ETS was overly complex. That's why they called it a CPRS instead.

Quote:

This is because most voters for Greens arent actual Greens supporters - they vote Green as a protest only and since the carbon tax is massively unpopular and everyone believes it is the fault of the GReens then they are paying the electoral price.

This can be said of any party. Only a small minority of people actually support a party. Most people simply vote for whichever one they see as not as bad as the others. The reason people were protesting is because the major parties failed to do something serious about climate change.

Your idea that even the left of the political spectrum suddenly rejected action on climate change once faced with the prospect of it is ludicrous. This debate has been around for long enough and been close enough to happening with the CPRS for people to know what is involved.

SOmetimes your posts are thoroughly nonsensical. Ive highlighted a couple of the absurd claims you make.

Wow, you've really outdone yourself there Longy.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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